Title:
Fashion Forward: Mari Anderson’s Journey in Adaptive Design

Subtitle:
Shaping the Future: Insights from Bee Human Design

Transcript:

Alycia Anderson: Welcome to Pushing Forward with Alycia, a podcast that gives disability a voice. Each week we will explore topics like confidence, ambition, resilience, and finding success against all odds. We are creating a collective community that believes that all things are possible for all people. Open hearts, clear paths.

Let’s go.

Welcome back to Pushing Forward with Alycia. We have a fun episode today. We are hitting, literally tomorrow, Black Friday. So today, we’re gonna talk about adaptive fashion with one of my favorite designers. She’s actually my favorite designer on earth. She’s a friend. She’s somebody that I trust and admire, and now build with a little bit.

She’s the founder of Bee Human Design. And today we’re gonna talk about adaptive fashion and how it is not a trend, but it is this movement that is reshaping who gets to be seen, and styled, and celebrated. And this amazing, talented human being in front of me is leading the way in this movement. She and I crossed paths a couple years ago when I was so lucky to be invited to work on a project with her when she was creating an adaptive puffer jacket that I got to do some fit modeling and consulting on. And that was one of the funnest projects that I’ve ever had. Number one, because I’d never done something creative like that and it has sparked so much in me for wanting to do more. But also I created a friendship and a sisterhood with Mari that I deeply value, and now we have little surprises cooking that we’re gonna launch next year. So it’s really amazing to have you on the show, Mari. Mari’s apparel line is called Bee Human Design. It is rooted deeply in the understanding of how disabled people, how everybody moves, feels, shows up in the world. She’s creating apparel that fits the needs of everybody that is also very fashion-forward, may I add, which is a, very important piece for me. Mari Anderson, welcome to your debut of Pushing Forward with Alycia.

I have a feeling there’ll be many more.

Marilyn Anderson: Yes. I’m so excited. I know we’ve been talking about this for the last couple months just trying to get this on the book, so I really appreciate you having me on.

Alycia Anderson: I love it. I feel like it’s a full circle moment. And I’m so excited for you to just talk about your journey, your products, your business, entrepreneurship, a little bit about our friendship maybe, and the whole thing. Okay. Let’s start kicking this off with a big question about adaptive fashion, and how it is a multi-billion dollar industry that remains pretty untouched.

We were just talking about white space in the industry, and some of the spaces that you’re trying to develop, and the buying influence, and how many disabled people out there looking to find products that fit their need. What excites you about this industry, and honestly, being an active contributor in shaping it?

Marilyn Anderson: I think, to my core, I love meeting people, and I love truly learning about them. And that has been the way my whole career was shaped really from a young age of growing up in a small town in Minnesota, and my parents didn’t have a lot of money. My parents were both designers and inventors. Also, at the time, my dad has tons and tons of inventions, nothing patented. Things he’s just always making, trying to make things work. And so being raised by people who were resourceful, taught my brothers and I how to be resourceful, and that our situation wasn’t the only situation. There are always people worse off than you, or there are always people that need your help, or sometimes you’re the person that needs the help. And it’s okay to ask for it, and it’s okay to receive it.

Can I pause you for a minute? Because that statement right there, our situation is not the only situation. I feel like that’s such an important life lesson for all of us to remember. It’s so easy for us to live in our bubbles and not realize that other people are navigating the world in different ways.

Alycia Anderson: So I love that down to your core, the initiatives you’re filling the need for now come from that. That’s really beautiful. I love it.

Marilyn Anderson: Yeah, we were raised to be hardworking, and not lazy people too. My grandfather, actually both of my grandfathers, were woodworkers. And my brother and I were just talking about this, how lucky we feel. They didn’t micromanage us in the wood shop. We had some rules and things we couldn’t touch. But as kids, we didn’t have computers and phones.

So we were like, “Go play with that pile of wood, and we could always figure out something to build with it.” And that is from very early on, just the way that we were encouraged to be creative. And even though my older brother’s a police officer and my younger brother works for a window company, we all are still making things, and being really resourceful, and helping our community. So, mine happens to be a little bit different having gone down the adaptive design route. But we all have been affected by the way that we were raised, and now have the creative kind of way of living.

Alycia Anderson: I love it. Bee human design.

This is a powerful company with a powerful identity you have launched that is centered around humanity at its core. What was your “aha” moment? What happened that you realized you wanted to build something beyond traditional design, and create something that works for humanity and is inclusive?

Talk about the company a little bit.

Marilyn Anderson: I had an idea of creating this company for years. I worked for a large retailer, and I was super fortunate for about the last 10 years to be leading adaptive design work for that company. But they made the decision for me last March when they eliminated my position. So, I had a choice to make.

I could feel sorry for myself, or I could take it as an opportunity to start the thing that I knew was always brewing in the background. But I couldn’t really do it at the time. Not just because of non-competes. When you work for a company, your day never seems to end, especially a global company. So, as soon as I lost my job, I knew that it was time. And I had a lot of people in my corner just rooting for me. And so I think the network that I’ve built, even through just the adaptive work in itself, is huge. And it is one of those things where I know we’ll probably touch on the Runway of Dreams fashion show that you and I got to bring one of the designs to fruition and see it on the runway. Anytime I would be at Runway of Dreams, for instance, and we’re in our fittings getting ready for this big fashion show. There’s different brands there and different retailers, and nobody is hiding the designs from each other to keep it a secret.

It’s a really collaborative industry, and there’s so much work left to do. But what I really appreciated about it was being a part of that movement in fashion.Runway of Dreams, Mindy Shire led the kickoff back in 2014, 2015. And I was able to be a part of that from the very beginning. And it’s just been a really interesting industry because typically in anything with retail, anytime you’re selling products, there’s a lot of secrets and a lot of, “This is my business and you can’t have it.” But instead, it was more like everyone has 10 things that they’re really standing for. Then the other retailer, other brand could stand for 10 different ones. I don’t know if I’m explaining that right.

Alycia Anderson: I love that. And it just gave me a visual of being behind the scenes doing the fittings with you all, and other brands around like Zappos. I can’t remember who else was around us when I was doing my fitting and it was collaborative. We came together, “How do those shoes feel? What could be better? How do these things go together? How can our products work together?” And I do think that it’s a community of designers and people that are launching these products into the market that not only care about the product, but really want to come together in inspiration to further the innovation of this stuff.

‘Cause it really is a new idea to create like this. I love it that you called that out, and I wouldn’t have known that would be a secret environment otherwise. Because it was likea fashion collaboration behind the scenes, which was like a friendship.

That’s awesome.

Marilyn Anderson: Yeah, with fashion shows, there’s usually a designer on the runway at a time. But in this case, it was multiple different brands, and the models even sometimes wore two different brands on the runway. So super exciting to be a part of that for so many years.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah, and you’re such a heavy hitter with your creative team. And just being a participant in watching you create, and ask questions, and find solutions for problems that, honestly, some people have never thought about before. And when you don’t have the solution, finding experts to come in and help you is incredible.

I know we’re gonna get into this, but you have patents. You’ve worked on projects that are patented and have this amazing expertise in this industry and in apparel design.

From an outsider looking in and working with you, it’s just been really eye-opening to see. So congratulations on that sister.

Marilyn Anderson: When you and I started working together, we were looking for fit models to at least try on the initial prototypes that we had been working on already for new designs. I wrote a whole process for how to fit with people with disabilities. But a lot of it’s like watching, and especially ’cause we did everything over Zoom. ‘Cause I was in Colorado and you’re in California or Minnesota. I was in Minnesota, some of the calls I think. And watching people interact with the product, you actually learn a lot more than what people are saying. I don’t think you need to be careful and make sure that you’re being nice about the comments, or not being honest about it. But there are a lot of times people don’t wanna hurt your feelings when you’re the designer and you’re presenting them this thing. And you’re having them try it on and they’re like, “Ooh, I don’t know about this,” but they feel like they can’t tell you. You and I didn’t have that. Actually I should send over, maybe even just for your records, some screenshots during the FIT sessions. And you’re in California trying on a parka, sweating in the summer, ’cause we’re getting ready to launch for the next fall. So through that process, we actually changed the name of the sessions from just FIT sessions to Function in Fit sessions.

Alycia Anderson: Oh, I love that.

Marilyn Anderson: Less about you having the typical standard measurements to your body in order to try on a typical, sized thing. What I was looking for when we found you as a fit model was, “I just need someone who will buy a smaller medium.” And you use a wheelchair specifically.

That’s how I found you is, these are the requirements I have and we got matched up.

Alycia Anderson: What you just said about really wanting to absorb the process of putting the garment on, and getting the feedback, and seeing how all of that works. When we were at Runway of Dreams, my best friend Katie was with me. And when I was doing the final fit for the outfit that I was gonna wear, she was observing you and Erin. She’s, ” These people really cared. They were so attached to every single word that you were saying. Every movement.” I don’t know if you realize that or not. That acknowledgement, that detail to really absorb my feedback as the disabled person. That information is so important. We don’t get that all the time. The world doesn’t always stop to get to hear what the disabled person, their feedback is. And so to be in that type of environment where you know that you’re valued in a real way, and that’s what you do with your clients.

That experience I’ve had working with you, it makes you feel like you really belong, like fully. And it’s really beautiful. You and Erin, and your team, everybody that I have met so far that you work with have just been really authentic in receiving the information from us.

Marilyn Anderson: What we found, and maybe this is why the whole industry is so collaborative and not competitive, is that you truly, as a person, have to care about other people, and care about making things better. A lot of times, in bigger companies, you’ll just put a few people on a design project. But if they don’t care about it, they might be just doing the job. They’re not doing it ’cause they actually care about it. I haven’t met a single person in the adaptive industry, yet that doesn’t care, that they’re just there for the recognition or to say that they were there. And so, I’m really glad you felt that, ’cause that’s exactly how I am.

Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: It is how you are. That’s why I love you so much. It has also been an opportunity for me. For instance, that first project, right? We’re working on a puffer jacket, and that was my one and only experience with this type of work and creative. And for me it was like, “Oh my God, this is my one moment to tell them what we actually need. I see them developing it like, ‘Oh my god.'” So we would sit on these calls and be like, “No, I wouldn’t buy it because of this. This has to go, you gotta do.” And to take that feedback and make little tweaks and go, “Oh my God, it works now.

Marilyn Anderson: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: This is unbelievable. I’m having a moment.

Marilyn Anderson: Yeah.

And we didn’t rush it either.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah.

Marilyn Anderson: I think we did three or four rounds of prototypes.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah.

Marilyn Anderson: Before we even launched it. It’s really important to have enough time. Things sometimes just take longer. We couldn’t just get your feedback as a manual wheelchair user. We had to then take it to several other different groups of people to say, “This is what we heard. How do you feel about this? How would these cuffs work on your hands if you don’t have a manual wheelchair?” The cuffs all of a sudden don’t matter as much because you’re not getting them dirty, and they’re not gonna be the thing that falls apart on the jacket first.

Alycia Anderson: Totally. So, from woodwork to fashion, how did you go down that route? What’s the story there?

Marilyn Anderson: Yeah. I grew up in a really small town. I think we had 1500 people in the town when I was young. My mom was a homemaker and sewed a lot. And she made a lot of different gifts for people, and went down the baby quilt route in the eighties and nineties. When I was 10 years old, my best friend at the time also went into fashion design. We were 10 and we were like, “We wanna make our own stuff.” And she was like, “I don’t know.” I’m literally sitting at her sewing machine table right now with the sewing machine still mounted in it. This is the machine and the table I learned how to sew on.

I don’t know why, but she felt like we were ready for it. We got a bunch of scrap fabric, and she taught the two of us how to sew.

I’ve heard other people say this, too, that they grew up in a small town and they could not wait to get out of there.

I knew it wasn’t gonna be sustainable for me to stay. It wasn’t just because design, in general, seems like a weird thing or unachievable. Especially back in the seventies and eighties, it seemed like an unachievable career. Why would I go to college and then not be able to get a job? But at the time, I graduated from the school I went to in 1999. And I had a little different college experience too, which really I think helped shape some of the way that I designed more with empathy. Like I said, our situation isn’t the only situation.

I ended up getting myself pregnant in college. So I, all of a sudden, just went from being a typical design student to now having a baby. I had to get to daycare in the morning. I had to get to class. I had to do the work. I had to work and be a mom.

The empathy. Even just my design projects, the way I approached ’em were different because everyone else was like,” I want a wedding dress or whatever.” I’d be like, “No, I need a double baby carrier because what if I have my son and then my friend’s son, and we need to go somewhere and I don’t have a two-person stroller.”

That being said, everything that I did from the time I had my son on was way different than other design students. And, not to mention, I had more responsibility and more things I had to actually manage. But it also just made me a more creative designer, ’cause I couldn’t think about myself.

I had to think about what else I have to do in order to just keep the wheels on the bus.

Alycia Anderson: I love it.

Okay. I wanna shift gears a little bit because tomorrow is Black Friday.

Marilyn Anderson: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: And you are selling some designs. So.

Marilyn Anderson: Yes.

Alycia Anderson: Let’s talk about it. I wanna talk about Bee Human. I wanna talk about your company, what you do, and I wanna talk about one of your first projects within Bee Human, which is Mad Drool. And maybe you can share with us what it is. For those that are watching this on YouTube, they can see it. You’re wearing a beautiful design that I cannot wait to have around my neck as well.

Marilyn Anderson: Yes.

Alycia Anderson: Can you talk a little bit about the company, what you offer other partners that you work with, and that type of thing?

Marilyn Anderson: Yes. I knew that I wanted to launch some brands and I wanted to launch some new products. But I also knew that I needed to have a company that would also allow me to do contract roles, or consulting for the other businesses. Let’s say you already have a product that you’ve worked on. You want it to be an adaptive product. You would come to Bee Human Design. I take a look at your product, first of all, and give you my honest opinion about it, and maybe poke some holes in it. Just like, “How did you get here?

Who is your target market? What kind of price point do you wanna sell this at? What kind of research have you already done? Who have you worked with?” And then I would actually do a product audit that way. My services really lie in the full design process, starts with guest research so that you’re not designing something for somebody, you’re designing it with them. And sometimes that takes working with different doctors and therapists. Occupational therapists are a really great resource for adaptive designers. So Bee Human can do the full process of a design concept or a redo, all the way through production. If you’re in this space and you’re trying to explore bringing a product to market, there’s a thing in there called the tech pack. It’s an apparel, or an accessory, or soft goods, like backpack. Most products need a tech pack that a vendor or manufacturer can take, look at it, and know what kind of product you wanna make, and then all the specifications that go into it. So that’s another specialty that the Bee Human Design group offers. So I knew right away that one of the first products I wanted to launch with was an adaptive bandana, an absorbent bandana. You can read a little bit more on my website at Bee Human Design. A woman I met back in 2018, Jessica Fru. I met her at another fashion show, and she rolled up to me and communicated through her Tobii Eyegaze reader, her technology. She communicated to me that she wanted some bandanas that didn’t make her look like a baby and weren’t Western cowboy kind of stuff, like handkerchiefs that she had been wearing. Basically, how Jess and I worked together for a few years was I would find some cool fabric. Ask her like, “What are your favorite colors? Tell me about what you’re currently wearing.” And then I would make her a prototype, send it to her. We’d give a little feedback and then I’d wait a few more months, and then I’d make her another one. And so, it was really this long process. So Mad Drool was really born from the need for fashion neckwear for people who drool. So Jess, for instance, is an aspiring actress and aspiring model, and she’s written a book, and she’s in law school. And she drools. If anytime there’s water running out of your mouth, food or liquid, your shirt’s gonna get ruined and absorb the liquid. So we’ve worked together. I don’t know if now is a good time to show you.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah, do it.

Marilyn Anderson: So I’m wearing an adaptive bandana, but it doesn’t have anything about it that screams I’m wearing something that doesn’t fit me or doesn’t belong on me.

Alycia Anderson: Give a visual description for those that cannot either visually see YouTube or might have some visual impairments. Please give a visual description

Marilyn Anderson: Okay.

Alycia Anderson: What you are wearing around your neck.

Marilyn Anderson: Okay, so I’m just wearing a shirt. Then I also have one of my holiday print bandanas on. It is a triangle-shaped bandana, and it has two layers of fabric. So the outside on almost every style that I offer, under Mad Drool, is a hundred percent cotton outer layer, which is the fashion fabric piece.

On the backside is a solid fabric. Most of the time this fabric is a hundred percent polyester. Actually for me as the designer, it drapes better, it sews better. It’s super absorbent, and it wicks moisture away from your skin. Some of my styles, though, do offer a hundred percent cotton.

So if you happen to be a person that’s hung up on cotton, and cotton’s the holy grail, I got you. This is a triangle-shaped bandana. I guess a typical bib for kids would be in a triangle shape, either a square folded in half or actually cut to the triangle shape. These are cut to the triangle shape and are two layers. And then I offer three different styles in this. One is a triangle, but it’s an adult size, so it’s about 24 inches around. That’s the style I’m wearing right now, which is a green and red plaid. So I’m really going hard into the classic holiday colors. But we do have a disco ball print, too, that has nothing to do with holidays, except for maybe New Year’s Eve.

Alycia Anderson: Not maybe. That is your New Year’s Eve bib. Okay.

Marilyn Anderson: Yeah. So the adult sized triangle is about 24 inches across. And it has four sets of snaps. So right now I have it adjusted to about the third snap, and I’ve still got plenty of room around the neck and it offers a nice drape. Or if you have someone who drools and immediately the liquid falls off of their face and runs down their neck, you can actually tighten the bandana around their neck more. Also, it’s offered in a slightly smaller size that I’m calling teen or young adult. And then, the style that I specifically developed with Jessica, we just call it the Jessica, and it’s a square bandana with the absorbent fabric on the backside. But it’s actually four layers of fabric, once it’s fully folded down, and it has two snaps of the back of the neck. So it’s much more absorbent, warmer, if you’re a heavy drooler. I came up with this term, the drool zone, which I’m not making fun of it. I’m just saying the way that I do some of my at-home testing is with, not just pure water, but a water solution that I found online. And it’s just using a water dropper. But I also look at the drool zone as the width of the bandana and the length of the bandana, ends up being where that coverage is. So the one I’m wearing is the adult size, the 24 inches wide. But they all look the same when they’re on, so the young adult is just slightly smaller. And then the Jessica style looks the same, but it’s definitely more absorbent.

Alycia Anderson: I just think it’s a very fashion-forward accessory, too. I wanna wear that on Christmas Day.

Marilyn Anderson: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: I want to wear that.

Marilyn Anderson: You will. Yay.

Alycia Anderson: It’s so cute. And then talk about Mad Drool Companion that you’re creating.

Marilyn Anderson: Okay. So Mad Drool Companion. Of course animals have to be a part of whatever I would be doing because I love animals. So I have a dog and a cat right now. So Mad Drool Companion was born after Mad Drool for Humans was born, and really it was from a couple different customers asking me if they could match their animals.

And I was like, “Of course you can.” But before I launched a bandana that you have to tie behind the dog’s neck, I really looked at all the things that bother me. I’m a person that dresses my dog in a bandana every day. And now the cat too. But I looked at all the issues that I had with bandanas, and then even for the dog. And then trying to find them in stores was actually really difficult.

So I went through the whole process that I would for any other product, and went to all the big box retailers. Looked at the competitive market online, looked at price points, looked at what the fabrics are. And then I wanted it to have an inclusive element. So these, this is like the cat-size bandana. But all of the animal bandanas have snaps on them, so they’re adjustable. And I do have all the sizes listed on my website for what the maximum and minimum neck measurement are. So this can still fit a very small dog. I’ve sold more to cat people than to dogs right now.

So there’s just something so cute about these. So they’re all adjustable with multi snaps, and then there are two layers. And they’re top stitched. So something I found in my research is that a lot of bandanas for animals will say on the care label or the hang tag in the store, “Hand wash, line dry.” And I was like, “Why is that?”

I can’t imagine taking my dog bandana after the dog park, and then hand washing it in the sink and then laying it to dry. The way that they’re finished isn’t quite as good as these Mad Drool Companion ones. So these are totally machine washable, and they’re actually constructed really similarly to the human ones.

They just don’t have the absorbent fabric on the back because this isn’t a bandana for drool.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah.

Marilyn Anderson: They are totally reversible too. You have a solid side on one, and then you’ve got your holiday or seasonal print on the other side.

Alycia Anderson: So, for any of our community out there shopping this week, what do they need to do to purchase these?

Marilyn Anderson: You can either go to maddrool.com or beehumandesign.com. There’s a product page for humans and a product page for animals. And right now, I plan on running this special through the end of the year. I’ve got a buy one, get one half off. You can mix and match with the animals and the humans. So really take advantage of that, ’cause the pricing is really good. And then you can get more of a variety of things, too. I do some custom work, too. I’ve had people reach out and say, “Oh, I don’t see anything I like right now. This is my theme, or this is my sports team or whatever. Can you do something special?” And so I’ve done quite a few custom orders for animals, too. Same thing with humans. If you have a favorite rock band t-shirt or something you want made into a cool bandana, that is totally something that I would take on for you, too.

Alycia Anderson: We’re gonna leave the information for all of that in the show notes, so people can easily click to and find your website, and go buy and enjoy these gifts. I think these are great gifts for Christmas and for the holidays. This is perfect timing. I can’t wait to see what else you create.

I think this is obviously just the beginning for you, so congratulations on your entrepreneurship journey into adaptive fashion apparel.You and I have a project that is coming next year in this space, which we’re really excited about. We’re not gonna say too much, but anything you wanna say about it?

Marilyn Anderson: Oh, working with you has been so fun, and I think one of the hardest things about this kind of work is the time it takes. Instead of just one or two rounds of prototypes, or sampling, or fit sessions, there’s more to it than that.

But, it’s super fun to work on. I try to find manufacturers for more of the projects I’m working on. The manufacturers are excited about this kind of product. If you don’t know someone who has a disability, or if you haven’t been affected by an illness, a chronic illness, or someone in your family hasn’t had a stroke, this whole world, you don’t see it.

But as soon as something like that happens where you’re affected by it and you can see the true need for it, it’s just like the sky’s the limit. So I’m super excited for what we’re working on.

Alycia Anderson: I’m really excited too. I think we have come up with something that’s pretty unique and is also gonna be functional, chic, hot, fashion-forward, and all the things that we need, and hopefully something that’s not out there on the market that we’ll be able to offer. So, I’m really excited for next year for this project, and either way, it’s been inspiring me all year just working on this with you.

It’s been so fun. I really love it.

Love it.

Marilyn Anderson: Same. It’s keeping me going.

Alycia Anderson: Okay, I have one last question.

Marilyn Anderson: Okay.

Alycia Anderson: As the founder of Bee Human and someone who is definitely designing with intention, what is your message to the next generation of entrepreneurs, fashion designers that want to do better in making a difference in their designs?

Marilyn Anderson: I have found having mentors that paved the way for me, or just mentors that are interested in doing reverse mentorship. So even though I have 25 years of experience, I also seek out junior level designers to work with. If you’ve got a product idea or a type of design you wanna do, you gotta go out and meet the people that are already doing it. Especially with this type of design where you’re actually working with people and you’re able to use your design skills to make things better. I guess my advice would be to look at the world a little bit differently. Your situation is not the only situation. And the more you can lead your whole life with that, it actually makes everything more beautiful and interesting. And I have this old favorite quote that I’ve literally looked as deep and as far as I can to find out who said this first. But I saw there was an exhibit at the Cooper Hewitt Smithsonian back in 2018 or 2019 in New York, and I was there for an event. And I saw this woman, she was like one of the first designers of modern tablecloths and that kind of thing with prints on it, with mid mod prints. And she said, quote, “You can’t have good ideas if you’re not interested in ideas.”

Alycia Anderson: Ooh.

Marilyn Anderson: And that really stuck with me because I always have ideas about new things, and even just music, and art, and fashion. But if you’re not interested in ideas, you’re probably not gonna have a bunch of new, cool ones. So.

Alycia Anderson: I feel like that was your pushing forward moment.

Marilyn Anderson: Maybe.

Alycia Anderson: That’s a pretty good quote.

Marilyn Anderson: Yeah, it is. I wish I could find who said it.

Alycia Anderson: Sometimes you just gotta say, “Somebody said it, and I don’t know who it is.”

Marilyn Anderson: Yeah, somebody said it. Yep.

Alycia Anderson: Should we mark that as you’re pushing forward moment, or do you have any other inspiration to give away?

Marilyn Anderson: We can mark that. I think the other thing is,if you wait ’till everything is perfect to launch a new product or to test a new idea, you’re never gonna do it, ’cause you’re always gonna be super hypercritical of what could go wrong. But knowing if you develop products or develop things in the right way, you might not be able to reach everyone and make everyone happy with it. But if you never launch it, you can’t reach anyone. So I would say some of my advice to classes that I’ve spoken to, either colleges or high school, is everything doesn’t have to be perfect. Just do it authentically and safely, and everything will work out.

Alycia Anderson: I love it. We’re gonna leave all of your show notes. Everybody can follow you on social media, support you, share, and buy during their purchasing over the next few weeks. Congratulations on the launch of your business this year, Mari, and for being brave in going for your dreams. I’m all about that, and I’m so grateful for your friendship. Honestly, most importantly to me.

Thank you for joining us today. Thank you to our audience and our listeners for showing up again. Please support Mari and follow her, and share, and buy.We will see you next week. This has been Pushing Forward with Alycia and Mari, and that is literally how we roll on this podcast.

We will see you next week.

Marilyn Anderson: Bye.

Alycia Anderson: Bye.