Title:
A New Era of Inclusion: Lilly Grossman’s Mission
Subtitle:
From Classrooms to Boardrooms Shaping Tomorrow’s Advocacy Tale
Transcript:
Alycia Anderson: Welcome to Pushing Forward with Alycia, a podcast that gives disability a voice. Each week we will explore topics like confidence, ambition, resilience, and finding success against all odds. We are creating a collective community that believes that all things are possible for all people. Open hearts, clear paths.
Let’s go.
Welcome back to Pushing Forward with Alycia. I am Alycia Anderson. I always say this that we have the most amazing guest, but today, we’ve got a pretty amazing guest. She made her way from the USC classrooms to policy boardrooms. Her name is Lilly Grossman, and she is fast rising on this beautiful path of advocacy, and women empowerment, and all kinds of things. I have had a front row seat in her journey and I’m so proud of her.
Over the years, we’ve cheered each other on as disabled women, advocates, girlfriends, if I may add that to the list. And we also compare notes, ’cause we both are in relationships with wheelchair users. She’s a wheelchair user too. She’s gonna talk about that. But we are in dual disability relationships, so we like to compare notes sometimes on our journey, which is fun.
Lilly turns quiet truths into loud advocacy. She’s here to share her bold vision behind Beyond the Box Advocacy that she’s just launched, and so much more. Lilly, welcome to the show. I am so happy that we’re sharing space right now.
I’m more excited than you are. I don’t know if that’s possible, but I’m very excited. Okay. I have a lot of questions for you, so here we go. I’m gonna start with the first one. Lilly, for those who are just meeting you, can you share a little bit about your background and what led you into social work and disability advocacy?
Lilly Grossman: I am a woman with a significant physical disability who uses a wheelchair to get around. So I’ve had a front row seat to how hard it can be to simply live in a world that wasn’t built with people like me in mind. A lot of my early experiences within various systems taught me very quickly that disability isn’t actually the barrier, but actually it’s the system itself. I am currently earning my master of social work degree with a clinical licensure track, and working on the macro side of disability policy at the same time. I want to become a therapist and open a private practice before eventually moving into broader policy reform work. My whole approach is rooted in the belief that we need to build the world that should exist and live as proof that it is possible. To me, advocacy is about clearing the path for the future disability generations, so they don’t have to fight as hard to succeed and thrive.
Alycia Anderson: I love this so much. Your advocacy has been shining bright bigger and louder as the years have gone on, and congratulations on just your path at school and all of the work that you’re doing.
It’s incredible. You’ve been open about the challenges of navigating, hiring, and higher education, as a person with a disability. Can you share with us some of the biggest systemic barriers that you have faced in graduate school or the many in the interview process? I’ve had front row seat on that as well. And how you have found ways to push through some of these barriers.
Lilly Grossman: Thrive. I started graduate school because I was having a hard time finding a full-time job. Despite having numerous internships on my resume and a bachelor’s degree, I think hiring managers were paying more attention to how I spoke than to what I brought to the table, which was especially discouraging since I was mainly applying for writing and digital communications positions where the work should speak for itself. While I am able to speak, I recently started using a text-to-speech app called Speak for Me, so I can articulate myself as I hear it in my head. I like this particular app because the voice doesn’t sound robotic at all. It can be frustrating to get stuck on words when I just wanna get my point across succinctly and eloquently. I ended up choosing social work because I wanted meaningful work and a career path where I do not have to spend my life begging someone to take a chance on me. A graduate degree and license showcases my skills first. Graduate school has its own challenges as well. I am the only social work graduate student who uses a wheelchair that I know of, who is currently in the on-campus program. There is an unspoken assumption that everyone in the room is non-disabled until I remind them otherwise. A perfect example is when we recently learned about family systems in class. The lecture slides listed every type of family you can imagine, but families with disabilities were not included. I raised my hand, suggested it, and the professor was very receptive. I still had to be the one to add our existence to the conversation though. When you are the only one, you end up serving as representation, even when all you wanted to do was learn.
Alycia Anderson: Can I follow up?
Lilly Grossman: What do you wanna ask?
Alycia Anderson: I love what you just said about being the only student in the room, and I can relate to that.
Lilly Grossman: Yeah.
Alycia Anderson: And I’m just curious. When you’re speaking up, how was that received?
Lilly Grossman: It’s received very well, which is big. I feel very heard. Just for the fact that I’m the only one in the room bringing this up.A lot of my classmates wanna work with kids. I’m the only one that has people with disabilities, as their intended population to work. That just goes to show that it’s not seen. But that’s why I’m here, because I’m trying to make it seen.
Alycia Anderson: You are making it seen. I know it’s exhausting for us to constantly be the teachers, but I think you’re making such a big impact in these classrooms that you’re going in, just with your mere presence and the advocacy that you’re willing to speak up. You are changing so many of these, professional lives. I’m so proud of you. Really good work. Really good work.
Lilly Grossman: Yeah.
Alycia Anderson: Ugh. I wanna talk about something kind of fun. Not that social work isn’t fun because it is. But we have bonded over the shared experience of being in dual disability relationships. You are a fiance right now. I’m married, but we compare notes. Can you talk a little bit about how that dynamic shapes your perspective on love, interdependence, and also inclusion?
Lilly Grossman: Being in a doubly disabled relationship changed how I understand love. Nick loved me through my discomfort with my disability, and helped me accept it as just a part of who I am as a human being. He is the first person who I could be fully myself with, because he understands the parts of disability that other people cannot see from the outside. He also motivated me to become more independent because I wanted our relationship to work long term, and I didn’t want him to feel like loving me meant taking on all the weight by himself. There still remains a constant fear of being seen as the one who needs too much help at times, which makes me push harder to prove I am capable, even though that is not how our relationship actually functions. We have shared care, not one person carrying the other, and that is what interdependence means to me now. It is a partnership. Our relationship has shaped how I see inclusion too, because some people do not know what to do with two people with disabilities loving each other and building a future together. The way I see it is that we’re going to have our disabilities no matter who we’re with. But because our connection is so rare, why not just figure out how to make it work? You and Marty show Nick and I that it is possible for us, and that’s one of the reasons I look up to and admire you so much.
Alycia Anderson: You do the same for us though, too. It’s really nice to have that connection, because a lot of people look at us like that too. We’ve had family members say, “Don’t get married. You’re not gonna be able to support each other.” And to see other couples doing it, it’s the same of disability inclusion in our culture.
When you see another couple that’s double, dual, whatever the proper term is, you go, “Ah, we have community too.” I love that about us together. I love it. Okay, so we’ve got big news for you. I wanna talk about your launch and Beyond the Box Advocacy, what it is, what has inspired you. Can you talk a little bit about this, your baby?
Lilly Grossman: My business, Beyond the Box Advocacy, honestly started with me realizing how much time and energy people with disabilities spend fighting for support. I just saw how often the system boxes people in through benefit cliffs, income limits, and low expectations. And I wanted to help people understand how to navigate it all. When it came to my own services, my family learned about them from other families, not social workers or other healthcare professionals. We had no other blueprint or guide. The inspiration came from a combination of personal experience and frustration. I waited for change until I finally understood that the current structure was never designed to evolve around people with disabilities, so I decided to build something that does. Beyond the Box Advocacy provides direct advocacy support, and works towards systems change. It supports people as they navigate the realities in front of them, while also pushing policy towards something more just. My goal is to create a world where people with disabilities have the space to build lives with possibility, choice, and freedom.
Alycia Anderson: I love it. This is gonna really grow. Number one, I love the name, very creative. And number two, there’s so much opportunity here for you. You can already see the momentum behind it. Very cool.
Lilly Grossman: Yeah.
Alycia Anderson: Very cool. Congratulations.
Lilly Grossman: Thank you.
Alycia Anderson: You’ve mentioned enforced systemic barriers and restrictive policies are some of the biggest issues in disability justice.
Can you unpack what some of those barriers look like and why it is such an urgent and important problem?
Lilly Grossman: When I talk about enforced systemic barriers, I am talking about the rules that punish people with disabilities for trying to move their lives forward. If you earn too much, you lose care. If you work more hours, you lose access. If you try to relocate, your support does not come with you. The message is basically stay poor, stay still, or lose everything. The urgency comes from the fact that these are not abstract policy flaws. They control who gets to have a future. People are avoiding employment because the system makes independence financially dangerous. If you need care in order to live, your income replaces basic safety. You cannot succeed without losing the very services that keep you stable. That is why I am developing a national portability framework, which is built on the idea that support should follow the individual, regardless of zip code or income. The issue is that existing resources are locked behind poverty rules and geographic lines, instead of being anchored to the individual. The structure currently forces people with disabilities to live in survival mode. You cannot plan a career, a family, or a long-term future when your access evaporates the second your life improves. I wanna find the solution because I already know I will outgrow the system. I am living inside the very structure I am trying to fix, which means I see it’s cracks from the inside out. I am working to build the answer while still being subject to the problem, because I know what is coming if nothing changes. This is about freedom, choice, and the right to build a future without losing the support you need to live.
Alycia Anderson: I love this so much. So much of that just hit home for me. When Marty and I got married, he lost all of his services that he had.
Lilly Grossman: Yeah.
Alycia Anderson: And what you just said is so powerful. You just said that you will be one that loses, because you have these sites through your career.
Lilly Grossman: But I need my services to be staying independent. I’m not waiting until I don’t have my services anymore. I’m doing it now. I’m trying to fix it now, because then I’ll be too far. Does that make sense?
Alycia Anderson: Yeah. This is very well some of the most important work you’re gonna do.
Lilly Grossman: Yeah.
Alycia Anderson: It’s such a big deal.
Lilly Grossman: Yeah.
Alycia Anderson: So I love that this is a focus and a framework that you’re building out, and anything that I can do to support you. So needed.
Lilly Grossman: Yes.
Alycia Anderson: Okay. Can we talk about your incredible writing?
Lilly Grossman: Yes.
Alycia Anderson: You are an incredible writer. I’ve read one of your poems on our show, a year or so ago. Love. You’ve written for the Alycia Anderson Company, and your words often blend truth with vulnerability and with a ton of power. What role does storytelling, specifically, play in your advocacy style?
Lilly Grossman: Most people have never been shown the reality of disability from the inside. Storytelling is the bridge and a way of reclaiming space. Telling my own story is a form of autonomy because it lets me frame disability as lived experience. Additionally, because my disability impacts my speech, writing is how I am able to best express myself. When people hear it from someone who is actually living it, they start to realize this is about equity rather than just inspiration. It is also how I make the systems visible. You can say benefits cliff, and people nod politely. But if you say, “I could lose the care I need to survive. If I earn $1 too much,” people suddenly understand the stakes. Storytelling turns barriers into something people can feel instead of analyze.
Alycia Anderson: Storytelling is huge. I do in my own platform too. I think it’s maybe the only way you can actually truly connect and have some sort of a emotional attachment to the initiatives, and then people are more interested and have more stake in the game. And you are such a beautiful storyteller and writer. So eloquent.
So good. I can’t wait to read your book one day, ’cause I know you’ll write one. ‘Cause you’re such an incredible writer.
Lilly Grossman: Thank you.
Alycia Anderson: Ugh, I love it. You’ve spoken about the quiet parts of disability. Those moments we rarely might name or see represented in the world. What are some of those quiet truths that you think the world needs to hear?
Lilly Grossman: Oh, I love this question. Okay, so one of the quiet parts of disability that is rarely talked about is the disability privilege gap, which has to do with resources, support, and optics. Society is far more comfortable with disability when it looks inspirational and easy to digest. The stories that get celebrated are the polished ones, not the lives that involve high-support needs or interdependence. People assume disability is represented because they see a feel-good version of it, while the people with more complex needs are still invisible. Much of disability advocacy discord is split between the two priorities of access and inclusion. Both are important, but neither addresses the actual root issue. People are trying to make the existing system kinder instead of fixing the structural problem that traps people from thriving. I think it can be compared to painting the walls of a house while the foundation is collapsing. The moment a person’s life moves forward, everything they rely on falls apart. I also want to add that disability is not a bad word. The leaders of the disability rights movements specifically chose to use the word disabled, because that’s what they were. Not special needs or differently abled. One of my professors actually had the term, disability slash exceptionality, on one of her lecture slides, and it gave me the vibe of mobile independence thrown instead of just saying wheelchair. In addition, there can be a real loneliness in being the only one in the room, because the system never imagined you would be there. There are no mirrors, blueprints, or precedents, so you end up representing an entire community while just trying to exist. Finally, I want to remind everyone that you can become disabled at any time. Disability is the only minority population that anyone can join at any time. Everyone will become disabled with age. Some of us just got a head start.
Alycia Anderson: It is a lonely place to be in a room, when the room didn’t expect that you would show up. I think that was a really eloquent way to say that. That was powerful. When you think about the next generation of disabled advocates, you’re definitely one of them. Creators and all of the other things that come along with the representation of our lived experience, and our talents, and all that.
What is your hope for the spaces they’ll inherit, and how do we get there?
Lilly Grossman: My hope for the next generation of people with disabilities is that they do not have to spend all their energy proving they belong before they even get to participate. I want them to enter spaces that already account for disability in the design, instead of having to ask to be included after the fact. I want them to have support that stays with them when their life moves forward. Access that is not tied to poverty, and growth that is not treated like a risk. Getting there means shifting from representation to redesign. It is not enough to put disability on a poster or a panel. The structure itself has to make room for people with disabilities to show up fully, without having to justify their needs. That looks like policies that protect progress, culture that assumes belonging, and systems that do not require constant self-advocacy. I hope they inherit a world where they are not the first or the only, because someone has already laid the foundation for them. I was the first and often the only, so I know how heavy that role can be. You are learning, proving, and translating at the same time. You are doing the work while also clearing the path. I do not want the next generation to have to hold both burdens. I want them to begin where we should have been able to begin, with belonging assumed from the start.
Alycia Anderson: Belonging assumed from the start. That’s so beautiful. Why do we all have to just feel like the first? When is that gonna end?
Lilly Grossman: No, literally.
Alycia Anderson: Yeah.
Lilly Grossman: Yeah.
Alycia Anderson: It’s gonna end with the work that you’re doing, and we’re doing collectively.
Lilly Grossman: Thank you. Yes, I’m excited.
Alycia Anderson: So you have upcoming projects that all center on amplifying lived experience.
What stories or lessons do you hope to bring forward through the projects that you’re dreaming up right now?
Lilly Grossman: The heart of my projects is acknowledging the parts of disability that usually never make it into the conversation. I wanna bring forward the stories about what it actually takes to build a life inside systems that were not designed for us. The world sees outcomes, but it rarely sees the cost. I also want people to understand that disability is not a single narrative. There is no correct way to be disabled. There are people with high-support needs who never get visibility, and there are also people who are thriving in ways society never imagined for us. Both belong in the story. Another lesson I wanna highlight is that progress comes from access. When people finally have the right support, they become freer. More than anything, however, I hope future disability leaders and advocates feel less alone. I want them to see themselves reflected before they have to become the first, and know that their voice is part of a bigger shift that is already happening.
Alycia Anderson: Beautiful. Access is freedom. I love what you just said there. That is our freedom to be free to fly wherever we want.
Lilly Grossman: We don’t have that right now.
Alycia Anderson: No, we don’t.
Lilly Grossman: Yeah.
Alycia Anderson: But I love what you’re dreaming up, and to watch your advocacy the way that you’ve been putting it out there and how it’s been received.
Lilly Grossman: Yeah.
Alycia Anderson: There’s so much opportunity for you, Lilly.
You’re doing such good work. Such good work. Okay, did we miss anything?
Lilly Grossman: The last question.
No, I’ll get there. No, that was it.
Alycia Anderson: Okay. Lilly, I warned you. We wrap the show up every week with a pushing forward moment. This is a little gift to our community to learn from you, to be motivated by you. I don’t wanna use the word inspiration, but a little bit of motivation to go off into the world and go create their dreams, just like you’re doing.
Do you have advice, or a quote, or a mantra, or something that you live by that you could gift away to our community today?
Lilly Grossman: My life motto is, be the person you needed when you were younger. Anytime I feel discouraged or second guess myself, I think about little Lilly who was looking for someone to prove that a future like this was possible. It reminds me that I am not working for validation in the present because I am building a world that would’ve changed everything for younger me, and will change it for the people coming next.
Alycia Anderson: The younger you. I love it. That’s so beautiful.
Lilly, thank you for coming on the show.
Lilly Grossman: Thank you for having me.
Alycia Anderson: It’s been my joy to watch you blossom into this beautiful powerhouse that you have become, and will continue to become. I’m so grateful that you’re in my life. You’re such a beautiful soul. So beautiful.
Lilly Grossman: Thank you, you too.
Alycia Anderson: Aw. So is our community. A bunch of beautiful souls.
Thank you so much for joining us on this amazing episode with my sweet friend Lilly. And thank you for showing up every week. Please share this episode into your network, so people can be introduced to Lilly and learn about all of her amazing programs she’s developed. Follow her. All of her details are in our show notes, and we’re gonna sign off. This has been Pushing Forward with Alycia and Lilly, and that is how we roll on this podcast. We will see you next week.
Lilly Grossman: Yay.