Title:
A Soulful Voice Bringing Change

Subtitle:
James Ian Keeps it Pushing with Disability Pride, SMA and Hope in Every Note

Transcript:

Alycia Anderson: Welcome to Pushing Forward with Alycia, a podcast that gives disability a voice. Each week we will explore topics like confidence, ambition, resilience, and finding success against all odds. We are creating a collective community that believes that all things are possible for all people. Open hearts, clear paths.

Let’s go.

Welcome back to Pushing Forward with Alycia. I’m Alycia, and I’m gonna start this episode with a couple questions for our community. What happens when advocacy meets artistry? When lived experience becomes lyrics that are super soulful. And when disability pride literally sounds just like that, it’s coming from the soul.

Our next guest we met on the runway. I think you were right behind me in line, or very close. But we met on the runway in New York Fashion Week, end of 2024, when we were both participating in the Runway of Dreams, claiming space in the fashion industry for disability and creatives. We made friends on the runway, ’cause we were in line together.

Then I started following this amazing artist. And his voice is beyond. It gives you chills. It carries history. It feels like something that shifts you. It gives you literally chills when you start to listen to it. James Ian is an award-winning singer, songwriter, actor, writer, and Georgetown Law graduate. Whoa.

He lives with spinal muscular atrophy, type three. We wanna learn a little bit about that for sure. He’s definitely redefining and showing up in the space of representation, of disability, and music, and film, and media, and modeling, and all of the things. He’s got all of these hits. His music is amazing.

And you’re really making a movement in representation that I feel we need a lot more of. Welcome to the show, James. It’s so good to see you. It’s been so long, and I’m so excited that you’re here.

James Ian: Thank you so much for the lovely intro, Alycia. Really good to see you. And you’re right. I think I was right behind you at the fashion show. It was really cool. We talked a little bit, but there was a big room full of people. And then I started following you after our brief convo. And I love what you did and what you’re doing.

I was like, “Wow.” I love your messaging and stuff. I feel like people don’t go as far as they could, or whatnot, but you really do try to cover a lot of angles and perspective.

So, I’m a big fan of yours.

Alycia Anderson: Oh, I’m a big fan. Thank you so much for saying that. It means a lot coming from you. But today is not about me, it’s about you. Can we just talk really quick? We were talking about it before we started and I’ve been wanting to invite you on my show, it feels like forever. Right at the end of last year, you put up this post of you singing, “A change is gonna come.” It’s pinned on James’s Instagram, so everybody needs to go listen to this. I listened to it like 10 times before we started the show.

I am literally obsessed with your voice. It is a real thing. I am a total fan. I have to come to one of your shows. The soul that comes outta your music is deep.

Will you talk a little bit about that song, that moment? It was during International Persons with Disabilities Day, I believe. Can you just talk about what that means for you?

James Ian: Yes. I’m a really big soul genre fan. I feel like my voice has always been tuned to that. That was the closest, match. And maybe it’s because I did listen to it growing up. It infused my soul personally, but I always really love the history of music.

I’ve done different genres. I’ve been in bands of different genres and stuff. As an artist, I love to get the backstory of where a song came from or what this artist experience was. I’ve always loved Sam Cooke. A beautiful voice. First and foremost, that’s what drew me to Sam. I remember, I did a road trip when I was living in California. I was going to a wedding out in Phoenix and I would just listen to a podcast. It was a music podcast, and it talked about Sam writing this song and what was the driving force behind it. It was a song that helped propel the civil rights movement and all those things. It came from that place of combating racism. It was just a really cool story about it, and it talked about his life. Those lyrics, growing up very poor and all those things. After I learned the backstory, it really moved me. That clip that you’re talking about, I was actually performing at the DRA Gala. It’s Disability Rights A ssociation. They do a lot of case work to help disabled people. They’ve been very, very instrumental throughout the country with some really good, cases that have helped our community. I was actually gonna sing an original song and then they were like, “Oh, by the way, Hillary Clinton’s gonna be here. She’s giving an award.” And I was like, “Well, I was gonna sing an original.” And I was like, “You know what, just with this moment all that’s going on politically in the US and in the world. A lot of rights being trampled and taken away. I was like, “I feel like I wanna sing this song.” I never sang it before. I asked the CEO and I was like, “Hey, what do you think? I was gonna do an original.” She was like, “I think change is gonna come, it’s gonna be a good, meaningful song.” And so, called in an audible last minute and prepped it, and then did it and got really great feedback.

All those things made me feel like this was the right way to go with that message. But that song means to me, like I was saying, it means dreaming of a better future. And I feel like we’re always up against these evil forces throughout history.

And I don’t think, unfortunately, that will change. But people like us who are out here trying to do the work, we always have to keep hoping for a better future because if we lose that hope, what’s the point? We give up and stuff. I often feel like giving up. That kind of makes me want to go further and keep doing it. So that’s what it means to me.

Alycia Anderson: Looking back into history, and then putting that into the now. It all absolutely makes sense. And you’re right. There’s such a connection there. And I love that you took the initiative to know who was gonna be in the room and go, “This is a big moment.” I’ve had moments like that on a speaking stage, where there is more politicians in a room than I was expecting. And I go, “Show up. Show up bigger than you were even expecting in that moment.” So sometimes we have to rise in those moments to really pierce the ears that are in the room. And a change is gonna come, like you said, the word. That is such a hopeful statement, even in the darkest moments, and in uncertainty, and when things feel like they’re being pulled back or unstable.

Especially in our lived experience and beyond. So powerful. I just got the chills 50 times when you were just saying that whole story. Oh. Yes. It’s so good. Oh my God. And it’s so beautiful. Whoever’s listening to this, stop, put a pause, and go and listen to the song on James’s Instagram. It’s incredible. Among all of your other songs. It gives you a feeling for sure.

Let’s talk about the runway for a minute. We met at the runway.Were you rolling for Target, too?

James Ian: No, I did JCPenney. And

Alycia Anderson: Oh, you got multiple brands.

James Ian: It wasn’t Target, though. It was maybe Kohl’s.

Alycia Anderson: I think it was.

Okay. So we just were close to each other, but in line, just in different ways or whatever. Anyways, we met there. What was that moment like for you?

James Ian: It was so cool to see all of the disabled people going down the runway in whatever way that was. Wheelchair users, folks with limb differences, whatever, walking down. It was really cool because we never see that. Society wants to make you feel so bad and sad about disability, and it’s not that.There are so many talented, beautiful people in our community, and you don’t have that level of representation.

Especially in the fashion world, it’s pretty much one body type. You don’t see a lot of difference, in terms of skin color, disability, sexual orientation, none of that stuff. It felt so powerful because this is the way it should be.

And there are so many incredible people here that can walk the runway or do whatever. They could be the face of a brand. It just made me feel great to see so many of us doing that.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah, it was fun. It was so fun. I kind of low-key always wanted to be in a runway. Never thought I would ever get there in any way, shape, or form. So to have the opportunity to do that. The jacket that I wore, I consulted with Target on all the adaptive features on it. It was just a really cool moment as a human.

James Ian: I didn’t know that happened with you, the consulting piece. Everyone deserved to be there. Why couldn’t they? It just felt like a celebration. Everyone backstage, they were just so happy to be there. It was like a little party. That’s what it should be. There’s so much joy in the disability community. We’re not walking around sad, hanging our heads down. It’s absurd that we get painted that way.

Alycia Anderson: There were so many friendships made, like this one, you know, which was really cool.

So Georgetown Law School, let’s talk about that path a little bit. Why law school? Tell me how you got there. Are you still practicing law? What are you doing? Where did the shift to music?

Were they always intersected? Can you talk a little bit about that journey? Georgetown is no little thing.

James Ian: It’s a lot. I will never forget the level of studying and work that I had to do there. I’m not practicing law currently. In terms of the shifts,I’ve been a musician for a long time. Music has been a part of my life.

I’ve been a musician for a long time. I’ve always loved it, and that was a goal of mine. I went to Georgetown for undergrad, as well. And when I got there my disability started. It’s a progressive disability, so I started to need more things access-wise. I could walk up and down stairs at the time and do these things, but I needed to use elevators more. The campus was fairly big, so I needed extra time. I need to leave class early or ask if I could come to class a little bit late because it took me a while to get there. I started encountering all these barriers to access, and we had a disability coordinator, who was great. But elevators were always broken. The company who serviced the elevators couldn’t come for days. I’d miss class sometimes. It just really frustrated me. My mom, she always worked with lawyers in her career. She was like, “You know what, you’d be a great lawyer.”

Everyone always said that growing up. My senior year, I was like, “You know what, I would love to fight these barriers. There’s a legal route where I could help to get parts of the ADA enforced, or whatever it might be.” That was what really drove me to law school.

I was like, “Alright, I’m gonna take the LSAT and do it.” When I got into law school, I was in a band. And the band started to do a lot more gigs and we were traveling around. On the weekends from Thursday through Sunday, I was doing music. And then Monday through Thursday was law school stuff.

We started getting more coverage and press and stuff. I had gone to law school to fight for the rights of disabled people. But then I had a couple of experiences on stage where I fell down, due to my disability. That’s a part of it. I’ll fall. It was mid-show, and I had to stop the show and then address the crowd and I was like, “Hey, I have a disability.” People were very receptive to it. And I was like, “Oh, maybe I can accomplish this goal of advocacy through art.” Again, I didn’t see any disabled people really in media, so it felt very far-fetched to me. But that was the shift. So I did graduate from Georgetown Law, but that seed had been planted from a young age.

Once the disability piece came into it and I was like, “Maybe I could do something with that,” that’s when the shift happened. And I was like, “You know what? I really do want to pursue music or art, and use that to talk about disability and show people what it’s really like.

Alycia Anderson: I love that. I can’t think of a whole lot of disabled singers and songwriters, A handful. Amazing that you chose that path, so needed. And so impactful through music, you feel so much that way. It’s one thing to get up and talk and advocate like I do a lot of others. But to get up and soulfully give it is pretty incredible

James Ian: That’s the thing, Alycia. The biggest disabled singers that come to mind are Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles. It’s really hard. There are definitely artists who are not household names that are disabled and out here doing music and stuff, but there are not many.

I mean, it’s really rare. It was daunting to be like, “Oh, could I do this? Because I’m not seeing it anywhere.”You see it a little bit more on TV in the acting world, but not much there. Music feels even more scarce to me.

Alycia Anderson: I agree. I’m probably ignorant to that. You know that more than I do, but that’s what it seems like from an outsider of the space. What are the opportunities like? How is the industry receiving you?

James Ian: It’s really hard. There are not a lot of opportunities. I’ve done a couple of good projects that had good visibility,streams and stuff. I had a commercial placement for a song that was a disability-centered song. Outside of those two, three projects, it’s not a lot. I’ve been doing music, like live performance. I’ve played hundreds of shows. I’m pretty experienced I’ll say, respectfully and humbly. Not trying to brag, but I’ve fallen down on stage.

I have played in a band,in front of large audiences and stuff. So it’s not like this is my first rodeo where I’m like, “I don’t know what I’m doing.” Despite that, it’s really, really hard. I’ve had a couple people, producers like, “Hey, I wanna do something with you. We’ll do an album or whatever.” Falls through. It’s really, really hard, to the point where it feels impossible most days, I’ll have a show, get great feedback or whatever, and then you feel like, “Oh, maybe something will come.” But it doesn’t. The opportunities, they’re not there.

Even venue accessibility. Music is really bad for that. Ninety- five plus percent of the venues I play are inaccessible in the US. So you’re dealing with that. I use a power chair more to get around.

I still walk. Singing, I actually use my chair now because it gives me the freedom to dance and feel the music a little bit more safely, where I don’t have to worry about falling down. It feels like no one’s trying to put a person in a wheelchair on a stage, unfortunately. I’m laughing and smiling, but it’s very sad and it sucks. But that is the landscape.

Alycia Anderson: It’s also the opportunity. You know what, a couple things that you just said. First of all, you apologized for owning that you’re a boss. You’ve been doing this for a long time. You’re an expert. I am, too, in what I do. And I don’t feel like when you have put in the work for years, and you have landed hundreds of stages, and you have the experience to show up, you gotta own that big, you know? Not in a conceited way. It’s like, “No, no, no. I’ve actually worked really hard for this. I’ve fallen on stages. I’ve shown up when I maybe was uncomfortable. I didn’t feel good. I was too tired. And all those things that we go through to show up on hundreds of stages is something number one, you need to own.

That hard work does eventually land you somewhere in the right space that will take you to the next elevated moment.

James Ian: Yeah, you’re right.

Alycia Anderson: That is absolutely in your path, and I’m sure you’ve seen those stages come already. And you’re extremely talented. So it’s talent, experience, and frankly, what seems to be the drive to keep going after it.

That’s how dreams come true, right? And it doesn’t happen overnight. It just doesn’t, unfortunately. That’s how I am, too, like, “Okay, I’m ready to elevate, what’s the next thing? What’s the next thing? Just keep going, keep going.” You’re making your path to the next person that’s gonna give you the shot that’s gonna take you to the next level, or whatever it might be. That’s powerful.

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James Ian: Thank you, Alycia. You’re right.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah. I mean, you gotta own that, for sure. This is the moment when there’s so much opportunity that the people around you that are hiring, or booking, or whatever you call it in music, that they don’t even see it yet. That’s your opportunity to pitch that and sell it. And that’s just the hustle of making it happen.

It’s harder, ’cause we have to convince people a lot of times. But, in my opinion, your talent is proof in itself. Why isn’t there the guy in the wheelchair on stage? It’s so beautiful, you know?

James Ian: I just went to a concert with an artist that I like. He’s not disabled, but he doesn’t move around. He just sings. People are whatever, you know? I’m grooving in my chair, way more than that guy was. Just to make your point, why wouldn’t you do that? I like great singing and good songwriting. That’s what I’m there for. You could just stand there and I will still love it, because you’re singing well and I like the message.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah. I think there’s so much opportunity for you out there. I’m just sure the hustle is hard. It just is.

James Ian: You know that firsthand.

Alycia Anderson: I know. We were talking about it before the show. It feels like to me, with your talent, the sky’s the limit. We’re just in constant advocacy space, where we’re having to educate before we get the opportunity. And then follow up again, and remind, and remember, and remind, and remember. It isn’t a one-and-done.

You have to go, “Oh, I’m still here. Shot yet? You’re ready? Nope? Okay, I’ll be back.

James Ian: In this space, we don’t even get the opportunity to just focus on the art. We have to do all the other things, like you said, the education, the advocacy, all of that stuff. We don’t even have the bandwidth just be like, “I’m just focused. I’m fully doing this.” We have to account for all those other things. You’re right about that. I’m glad you brought that up, ’cause I think a lot of people don’t get that.

Alycia Anderson: Totally. And that’s the same thing as going into a job interview or trying to find a way in whatever it might be. We have to get through all those barriers of, “Oh, they can’t, they won’t. Not good fit to why you are and how experienced you are, and owning that with power.”

Anyway. I love it. That’s great. I can’t wait to see you on some big show somewhere that I’m like, “Oh, I can’t get an accessible seat. Are you kidding me?

Can we talk a little bit about your disability? We’ve been kind of alluding. Whatever you’re comfortable with. Will you explain a little bit what it is? I believe it’s progressive. Can you talk a little bit about just how your disability shows up and what it is?

James Ian: Yeah, so my disability is called Spinal Muscular Atrophy. There’s four or five types of it. The lower number that you have, the more symptoms you have. Type one is the number one genetic killer of infants. I think it’s one in 6,000 births. It’s a genetic disease. If your parents are both recessive carriers, and one in 50 people are carriers, then your child has a one in four chance of having SMA. I’m the oldest of four, the only person in my family with it. But, most families that have kids with SMA, multiple kids have it. I think that one in four doesn’t really play out like that.

Most of my friends that have siblings. A couple of them, or all of them will have SMA. So, type one and type two. Type one, they don’t breathe on their own, I don’t believe. Life expectancy used to be under 12 years old, or something like that. Type two, sometimes they would walk, and then they would end up using a wheelchair for the rest of their lives. Some of them need assistance breathing. I think their life expectancy used to be in the twenties or something. We have treatments now and gene therapy, which is making people live longer. Some people, if you get the treatments early enough, some of them are asymptomatic or they’ll walk where they would not walk, and stuff. Types one and two are the most prevalent. I forget the percentage, but over 50% of people with SMA have type two or type one.

I think two is the most common. I’m type three. 10% of people with SMA have that. I still walk. I’ve always walked. When I hit puberty, the symptoms become more prevalent.

I started to fall down more. Using stairs became more difficult. And just as time has gone on, I used to be able to get up off of a couch on my own, or a regular chair at a restaurant. I can’t do that anymore. If I fell down, I could get up on my own. I haven’t been able to get up on my own in 12 years or something like that. When I was younger, I could use stairs, I could run, but I ran slower than my non-disabled friends. There were symptoms, but it wasn’t super apparent, I guess. So that’s how type three plays out. It affects all of my body, my extremities and everything, arms, legs.

My arms used to be stronger than my legs. That’s how its showed up. I can’t run. Like I said, stairs are really difficult now. I might be able to use a few if there was a railing, but I’m not sure. I haven’t really tested that out in a while. Like I said, getting up off of stuff is really hard. I am prone to falls, so if I fall down, I need help doing that. And the other thing, which my SMA calls me. I didn’t realize it. I just got diagnosed, right before I met you, actually. I developed cervical stenosis over the years, and they thought it wassomething else.

The end of 2017, I lost a lot of movement in my left arm. They were like, “Oh, you have this other thing, this other very rare thing.” So, that was untreated. Then the beginning of 2024, it started to happen in my right arm and my doctor was like, “Oh, we gotta get you in for a scan. This is probably not what we think you have.” It turns out my SMA caused nerve compression, so I lost my arms. So they were like, “If you don’t operate to make this better, you’re gonna lose your arm movement and strength probably forever.” A week before Thanksgiving, they operated on both sides of my neck, at my spine, so they could create space in the back and the front of my neck. Because I have SMA, I developed a complication from the surgery. So I woke up and my arms were worse than they were before, so I got C5 palsy in both arms. I’ve been in the process of recovery. It’s getting a little bit better, but I lost a ton of arm strength and mobility. I have that, plus the arm thing. And it’s just like, “Cool. The disabled life never surprises you.” SNA was a factor for the initial reason why I had to have the surgery, and it was the cause of the complication during the surgery. That’s how it presented for me.

Alycia Anderson: That is one of my worst nightmares. I potentially need surgery on my wrist. They keep talking about the things that could happen. I’m like, “No, no, no. What do we do without like? So, wow, that’s terrible.

James Ian: With SMA, I relied more on my arms because they were stronger. So I’ve had to learn a whole new body, end of 2024 and stuff. We’ll see what happens. Hopefully I get it back, but you never know.

They’re hopeful, but it could take a few years. I used to play guitar and drums prior to this, and other instruments. I can’t do that anymore. That’s just the disabled life. We’re always going to navigate, our bodies change. But that’s how SMA operates for me.

Alycia Anderson: Thank you for sharing that. That’s a very layered journey. What’s the message there? How did that settle?

James Ian: I was very frustrated, and I grieved a lot, right after that. I was in a rehab facility for a couple of weeks. It was right before the holidays. I needed help with everything. Prior to that, I lived on my own.

I drove a car and did everything on my own. After that, I needed a lot of help, for a while. Because my other friends with SMA, with types of one and two, they need more help from caregivers, or whoever else. I was really mad that this happened. I grieved. I went through that experience and I was like, “You know what, now I’m getting a full picture of how other people with other disabilities, people with type one and type two, what their lives are like.

It allowed me to be able to relate a little bit more because I do walk, and a lot of folks with SMA don’t walk. You can’t really understand all of the things, and no one ever will. I felt disconnected sometimes, and I was like, “I wanna know what my friends feel like. They’re talking about this issue with their wheelchair or caregiver. I don’t know what that’s like.” So it allowed me to experience that, you know? I think that’s a benefit, because I’m getting to see what other people go through a little bit. Not the same, but.

Alycia Anderson: Maybe some perspective on gratitude, too. All of us with disabilities, we’re all running from some sort of, I don’t wanna say deficit, but something that is different. We get stuck in our own lived experience. I’m gonna speak for myself. I don’t look as much as I should, at the parts of my body that I should be grateful that are strong, or that are mobile, or that are useful, or that are not in pain, or all those things. So I can imagine that maybe you putting your new wheels in somebody else’s can also give you some reflection of gratitude of like, “Okay, what is good? What is still good?” Perspective is sometimes hard, too.

James Ian: Yes. That’s a really good point. I always had a problem asking for help. Even to this day. Even with all the help that I’ve had to ask for in the last year and a half, or whatever it’s been. And I feel like I’ve come such a long way.

I’ve had to ask for a lot of help. That was hard for me. People still are like, “Dude, you never ask for help still.” So that was a hard thing. It’s helped me to really ask for help. I’ve learned that everyone needs help.

Everyone has to ask for help at points in their life. I think it’s also just really giving me more gratitude for the people in my life, too, that did help me. I was always grateful for them, but it’s a different level of gratitude now. SoI appreciate that. You know?

As a person that walked, and didn’t use a wheelchair, and lived on my own, I was very much like, “Oh, I’m not gonna need help for a long time. These many years or whatever.” Then it happened pretty quickly. And I was always afraid of that, like, “Oh, I’m gonna need this help.”

And then having to go through it, I’m like, “Eh, that’s just life.” I don’t fear that anymore. I have a better understanding of like, “Your body’s gonna change again. You’re gonna need help sooner than you think, and that’s okay. There are people in your corner who are gonna help you out.”

Alycia Anderson: That ask for help, and then the next step is accepting it without resistance. Even if it’s resistance internally where you’re like, “I can’t believe I have to do this.” Asking, and then accepting it wholeheartedly. That’s something you have to practice.

I have the same problems. I think when you start to let people in, in that way, it not only benefits you, but it makes them feel like they’re an active participant in your life, which is what they wanna be.

James Ian: That’s very, very true. And I remember, vividly, when this was all happening and I just needed more help. Every week with my therapist. I was just bringing this up, She said what you said, “These people love you. They want to help. Everyone needs help. You have to stop looking at it in that way. It’s a part of life. And your other friends that have disabilities, they’re getting more help more often. It’s not affecting them. It’s not a big deal. You help other people in other ways, too.”

Like you said, I was just like, “Ugh, I have to do this. I have to ask for this help now. I hate this.”

Alycia Anderson: We only got to four of my questions. You’re very interesting, which is great. We had such a great conversation. A few things I wanna know. Some of your songs that you’ve written, “Spaces.” You wrote one that’s called “Lift Me Up,” honoring Judy Heumann. I wanna shout those out so everybody can go find your music and listen to these amazing pieces of work, and artwork, and creativity that you are blessing our world with.

Will you talk about how people find you, download your music, hire you for their events, all the things?

James Ian: Sure. Thank you so much, Alycia. I pretty much just use Instagram only. It’s at jamesianmusic. You can DM me through there. Email is jamesianrocks, R-O-C-K-S, at gmail dot com. So you can contact me through there. And then music-wise, all my stuff is on all the streaming platforms. So it’s on Spotify, Apple, YouTube as well. All of it’s on there. I have a song with another disabled artist called “Unconditional Love.” It’s like an R&B song. His name’s Tap Waters. That’s on there. Yeah, Spotify, Apple, YouTube, anywhere else you can get your music. We have music videos on YouTube. And I call that out because it’s a lot of disability representation in those videos.

Alycia Anderson: I like it. And maybe you can give us a little clip that we can tie in to the episode somewhere. I would love to do that.

James Ian: Definitely. I would love that. Valentine’s Day, we can cut a couple songs I love.

Alycia Anderson: I like it. Let’s do that. Okay, so pushing forward moment. Do you have a little advice, or mantra, or quote, something you live by that keeps you motivated to keep creating?

James Ian: Because it’s Pushing Forward. Internally, I just say, “Keep it pushing.”

Alycia Anderson: Oh. Keep it pushing. I like it. Stay with the brand. I’m into it.

James Ian: I didn’t make that up for the show. I actually do say that.

Alycia Anderson: I love it. Thank you so much. Did we miss anything?

James Ian: I don’t think so, Alycia. I really really appreciate you having me on. This has been a very fun, fun conversation. I think very highly of you, so thank you.

Alycia Anderson: It’s my honor to amplify your talents. It’s absolutely my honor. I’m so excited about it. Thank you for taking the time to come onto my show, our show. I’m sure there will be another time.

I’m coming to a show. Yeah.

James Ian: I love it.

Alycia Anderson: I’ll be a groupie. I’ll be doing the whole groupie thing, for sure. Thank you so much, James, for your time and all of your beautiful energy. Thank you to our community for another awesome episode. Share this one definitely, please, so all of your friends and family can be introduced to James if you don’t know him yet.

This has been another wonderful week at Pushing Forward with Alycia podcast, and pushing forward is how James and I roll. We will see you next week.

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