Title:
Who Is Hospitality Still Leaving Out?

Subtitle:
Meaghan Walls on accessibility, World Cup readiness, and the business case for inclusive experiences

Transcript:

Alycia Anderson: Welcome to Pushing Forward with Alycia, a podcast that gives disability a voice. Each week, we will explore topics like confidence, ambition, resilience, and finding success against all odds. We are creating a collective community that believes that all things are possible for all people. Open hearts, clear paths, let’s go.

Hey everybody, welcome back to Pushing Forward with Alycia. I’m Alycia Anderson. I have a question. What if one of the biggest missed opportunities in hospitality is who is still being left out? Left out of restaurants, left out of hotels, left out of stadiums, left out of fan experiences, basically left out of fun.

Today’s amazing guest is a friend, a colleague. Her name is Meaghan Walls. She is the CEO, yep, I said CEO, she’s a boss, of the Center for Disability Inclusion, and president and CEO of Assistology. We wanna hear all about that. She is an accessibility and universal design consultant with deep expertise in assistive technology, ADA coordination, rehabilitation, and inclusive design.

She and I connected, about a year ago, even though I feel like I’ve known you now, forever.

I was so honored and excited to be invited to be the keynote speaker for the Disability Inclusion Summit in Kansas City that Center for Disability Inclusion is hosting. And Meaghan and I have just had multiple opportunities to grow this friendship and me learn about all the incredible things that she’s doing in the world.

And on top of that, the expertise that she has in hospitality, and some of you out there know that I was a waitress and I worked in hospitality for a good portion of my younger career. And we started talking about some of these things, and themes, and challenges, and we’re like, “We need to talk about this on the podcast.”

So Meaghan is here to grace her beautiful presence and knowledge. Welcome to our show.

Meaghan Walls: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I’m excited. I feel like we’re gonna have a, great conversation. Who knows what directions it’s gonna go, stick with us for the whole time.

Alycia Anderson: They will, definitely. Number one, I know we’re gonna have a great conversation. Number two they’re gonna stick with us because we’re starting off with hospitality, World Cup, business case for hospitality in the space. When you started telling me about all your expertise in this, it was fascinating to me.

That’s where I wanna start. World Cup coming to Kansas City and disability inclusion and why is this moment urgent now, honestly, in our past and our future?

Talk a little bit about the urgency of it?

Meaghan Walls: Yeah. World Cup is coming to Kansas City as well as other communities. I’m engaged with the Chamber of Commerce which planning for the World Cup just kind of upended so many things. There are infrastructure investment that’s happening around arenas and transportation. There’s businesses bending over backwards to get their brand visibility up, and it’s on a global scale, right? And so that impacts, i- you’re thinking about your brand, you’ve got products, you’ve got services, you’ve got talent pipelines, people who may be checking out communities for their future employment or recreation. And all of those pieces have, touch points around accessibility and the navigation of not just the events in the city and, what’s happening but also in the, hotel and housing aspect. We have a colleague who, requires accessible housing for her own access needs and actually her mom’s as well.

She had an internship, and the nearest Airbnb that she could rent for the extent of her internship was 40 minutes from where she needed to go every day. So around Airbnbs, VRBOs, hotels, they’re just not designed to support high levels of, and varieties of access needs.

And so all these communities are trying to prepare themselves for these influx of global travelers, and there are so many ways that these people want to interact in the community, and then there’s gonna be so many ways that they run into barriers, and their experience becomes maybe less than what the communities wish it was, and what does that then say about those communities, right?

So there’s just– it’s a moment of great opportunity for making improvements and changes, but only if you’re having the conversations at the right times and with the right perspectives.

Alycia Anderson: You know what? That is such an interesting way to look at it. For me, when I think about access and hospitality, I’m thinking of, like, when Marty and I went to Paris, and we were trying to book, seats at the Paralympic Games, and this is an event for people with disabilities, but there’s only an allotted amount of seats in every stadium that are wheelchair accessible.

So the event actually isn’t accessible for the population that it’s providing for, but the point that you just made that is so interesting, and obviously something that we need to companies need to be, like, having foresight in, and I wanna hear what you have to say about your partners at Chamber of Commerce and the companies that you work with and their mindset in this is are they looking at it as an opportunity of, oh, all these people are coming in.

They’re not only gonna go to this event, but they’re gonna be exposed to, like you said, our infrastructure, our housing, our city, how it is to live here. Will they love it? Will they wanna try to work here? Will they wanna try to start a business here? Will they be accommodating? And do they look at accessibility as an opportunity or a major hindrance in that process?

Meaghan Walls: Yeah. I have another story that kind of highlights that picture, but I wanted to jump back just really quick ’cause you were talking about the seating. And we do training and advising in event accessibility for our partners and for other places that come to us. And we talk about seating, whether that’s a conference or an event.

And it, is that– and not just, in your sense, yeah or in your experience that you shared even more so because the intended audience, like you have to know your intended audience. Like your intended audience is going to have an even higher percentage of people with disabilities coming because of the nature of the event.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah.

Meaghan Walls: But when places are designing arenas especially, sports stadiums, concert halls, when they’re designing seating, they go by default to like back row of the middle section and maybe a few seats here. And it’s that conversation of like for those of us who don’t have access needs, like have you ever stopped and thought about if the user wants to be so close they are being sweat on by whoever’s performing, right?

That autonomy of choice and what your experience is like. And when we don’t create flexibility and choices in those environments, we’re not giving equal access to those environments. And it even does go all the way trickles all the way through to how we’re coordinating in that experience.

It’s just– it’s on every level of the experience.

Alycia Anderson: And like flexibility, I’m gonna get stuck on this for a minute because I’m like having all these flashbacks, but like flexibility and options, I love that story that you just said about what if you are like, have a disability, it doesn’t have to be a wheelchair user, maybe it’s whatever it might be, and you wanna be so close that you’re being sweat on.

I’ve never had that experience in my entire life. And I’m thinking of my sister who graduated with her master’s degree from Arizona State University a couple years ago, and they had accessible seating on one level, probably on a couple levels of the stadium. But because disability has become more and more identified, uh, it was jammed, it was full, it was overflowing.

There was not enough seats for all of the people that were identifying as disabled to the point of I had to sit by myself, could not be with anybody in my group, and what type of experience is that? Having to be segregated from your family or your friends that you’re going to enjoy something with because we’re stuck in this number or subset ratio that actually doesn’t serve the population anymore either.

Or it probably never did, honestly. But I think that’s a problem too.

Meaghan Walls: Yeah. And to answer your other question about the how are businesses perceiving this opportunity or not, I think part of the reason continue to be missed or lag behind in this accessibility space is just because there’s been such a long history of perception that creating access is a financial burden versus an opportunity. Or that the number of people or the population that will benefit is too small to matter, right? To make this effort. And so my story that I wanna tell is about a business that had leaned in. They had more of that curious, ” Okay, let’s do better,” response. So as the Center for Disability Inclusion, when we’re planning our summit, we have to have an accessible venue that checks all of our boxes, not the legal boxes, but our boxes, because we know our audience. And we know, it’s also our, it’s also our reputation, right? So we were looking for a cool venue, and we found a really cool venue. And there were a couple of issues, but the biggest one was the restrooms. And, when we– And I’m up here in Omaha. The venue was down in Kansas City. In talking to them, they’re like, “Yes, we’re accessible.

Our restrooms are ADA compliant.” But they couldn’t answer some of the more specific questions that I had, to really verify these things were accessible, ’cause sometimes what is understood as accessible isn’t accessible as it might be.

Alycia Anderson: Give an example of a question, what’s a might ask?

Meaghan Walls: So I was asking, I was just, I was asking questions about restrooms and location and, hallways to get there and things like that. So when I went down for my next visit, we went to take a kind of a tour. Restrooms were not accessible. The accessible stall in one of their restrooms, for example the door opened in and hit the wall. So if I– I could barely get in to shut the door as a, an ambulatory person. And so anyway, my point of my story is we told them the reasons that we couldn’t hold our event there. And they were like, ” We don’t want to miss out on any more opportunities to host events and bring people in.” So they actually did renovations to improve based on the things that we had shared because they saw the business case and future missed opportunities.

So that’s what it looks like to lead in that hospitality space and see the possibilities and see what you’re missing out on. But it doesn’t always look that way.

Alycia Anderson: You said something interesting, and I just wrote it down ’cause I didn’t wanna forget it, ’cause my 50-year-old brain is like, “Hello.” You said when you’re kind of having these conversations, you’re checking that all the boxes are checked legally, but beyond. And I love that you just up to your standard.

What are some of the little things that you look for beyond the compliance check-off-the-box?

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You will gain practical strategies, connect with industry leaders, and leave with a clear path of measurable impact. Join us at the CDI Disability Inclusion Summit on September 24th in Kansas City or online because disability inclusion isn’t just the right thing to do, it’s a competitive advantage.

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Meaghan Walls: We talk about this quite often because to give people an example the legal compliance piece is are there accessible parking stalls? Essentially, is there an ADA-compliant restroom. So we’re looking at how the AV system will support microphone use.

We’re looking at, all of the different counter transaction locations, for access. We’re looking at, if it’s more than one room, we’re looking at, signage and way-finding so we can figure out where we need to enhance that. If there’s only a couple parking spaces, we’re, working on getting temporary things so that there are enough stalls. So just looking at how it needs to function for the different activities and interactions that have to happen.

And how we can provide information, communication, build connection and as well as physical access because a lot of that code compliance only focuses on physical access.

Alycia Anderson: That story that you just told about that client that invested in upgrades to make sure that they don’t miss out on future events, I think is an amazing story. What are you hoping that other companies are asking themselves right now, but I mean, it’s probably a little bit too late from a World Cup standpoint, but just like i- in events in general, like where do they start?

Like what do they need to be thinking about?

Meaghan Walls: I think ideally they should be asking how to create the best experience for all visitors across all lived experiences. A lot of regulated or regulations and code, it’s physical access and largely then also people who are blind utilizing guide dogs or white canes for their navigation, there are so many other lived experiences, whether that’s age, cognition, language, culture, gender identity, they all create opportunities to look at the environment through a different lens.

And so the questions that we often ask around process, policy events, or built environment design who does this not work for? And then when you identify those barriers, you can plan proactively and ask yourself the question again. And then once you can really not easily identify where there may be barriers or who might be left out, you can get some greater confidence that you’re planning for all of those people, right?

And you’re creating space that welcomes them all in. I heard an interesting quote once recently. We were thinking about, It was actually a hotel. We were talking about hotels, if you think about it, every first-time visitor to a space is disabled by the limits of the information that they’re provided when they get there. So whether that’s the language they speak, their literacy level, their age, their physical ability, their hearing, their vision they’re all a little bit on a level playing field in terms of that. So you have a responsibility as the host to make sure that you’re giving them the things that they need and creating that welcoming experience from the get-go.

Alycia Anderson: I love that. I think that’s a great way to look at it. It’s like looking at it that way allows business owners or others that aren’t embedded in disability like we are to find some relationship with understanding it. So I think that’s really clever. And that welcome word that relates to hospitality is so important.

And I know for me as a person with a disability, and I can only talk about from a physical disability standpoint, and obviously this is different for all k- types of disabilities, but like it takes us a lot extra time to navigate the systems, right? And especially, do you have any conversations about technology?

I was watching a post the other day on social media, and there was a wheelchair user and there was another an ambulatory friend, and they both went online to buy a ticket to go to a concert. Did you see this?

Meaghan Walls: I’ve seen ones like this.

Alycia Anderson: Okay.

And it took– Yeah, it took the woman who could– was ambulatory, it took her like less than a minute to go on, book a seat, and pay and be done.

And the wheelchair user, it literally took like she was still going an hour later trying to call, find seats, spend money. You know what I mean? Like she couldn’t even if she wanted to spend her money easily, there was this massive barrier just from the technology restraints that are up to like I guess manage the minimal amount of product that is out there.

Like do you have conversations about technology?

Genuinely?

Meaghan Walls: Yes, all the time because there are more and more, In the digital space, I feel like adjustments to the ADA, new guidelines it’s keeping up better the digital space than it is with the physical space.

But that doesn’t mean that it’s guiding the processes that are building or, guiding that technology experience. It might have to have, certain contrast and certain language, but we always ask people “When is the last time you went through the process to purchase a ticket or buy this thing or use your system with that, needing those additional components of making an accommodation request?” The number of times you’d be surprised, that you put in, “I need an accommodation request,” or, “This is the need that I have,” or, “I’m having– I need help with this process,” and it goes to an unmanned voicemail or an unmanned email because it’s required to have something that, a, a– an email or a contact in there. And so that walking through or navigating through that ticket-buying, product-buying experience, asking those additional questions is really important because it does happen. And I think the article I sent you, the latest statistic was, like, people with disabilities spend $50 billion on travel and entertainment annually.

And what percentage of that are you leaving on the table?

Alycia Anderson: That was a great lead in. I wanna talk about the white paper.

Meaghan Walls: What?

Alycia Anderson: I wanna talk about your work in this. You co-authored a white paper called Dyenable. Can you talk about some of the powerful stories and the impact of this paper and this research?

Meaghan Walls: Yeah. It was over a cup of coffee

Alycia Anderson: Love it.

Meaghan Walls: The curious architect, and we just started talking about where the architecture and design community is lagging behind in the way that they’re thinking, they’re designing.

Then we got stuck on restaurants. so then we started holding focus groups and talking to families and about they’re are impacted by disability, whether it was themselves, their child, someone else in their family, and just understanding what their experience in kind of that restaurant environment was.

And you had families had children who were sensitive to sound, grandparents that they, lived with, like multi-generational families going out. And two stories that really stuck with me were, a mom of a 22-year-old son. And the son hasfall precautions due to seizures. And so when he would need to use the restroom, he would need to have loose supervision, not, like hovering, standing over, but proximity. So if there weren’t companion or family restrooms, the mom would have to continually pop in and out, pop her head into the men’s restroom, check on how’s it going, make sure, he’s safe. And so just the lack of dignity in that experience for everyone, especially, it’s not a nine-year-old son, it’s a 22 year-old

Alycia Anderson: Okay

Meaghan Walls: an adult with, my nine-year, my 10-year-old has a lot of opinions, but you know what I’m saying. And so that was one story. And another one was about a 30-year-old man who had cerebral palsy. He had, dexterity challenges, and so to prevent spilling when he would be in a restaurant out, he would want a a lid on his cup. But the only cups that were available that had lids, were the little plastic…

They had dinosaurs, colored animals, and again, it was a dignity thing. He’s “I’m 30-some years old. I don’t wanna be drinking out of this little colorful plastic, cup.” And so it just spawned a lot of conversations about not just the space design, but operationally and interactions with staff, and how information is communicated to patrons so that, they feel that the supports are gonna be there, they can ask for what they need, or there’s, and I think QR codes that came out during COVID created a lot of better access for restaurants in that sense because they, made it easier for people to access information digitally. And so people who are or have low vision, had a little bit more independence in menu navigation versus, the physical menus with pictures and words.

You know what’s interesting about that cup and what you just said is you brought up the employees and it– like, even taking that one step further, like, just the visual of a kid cup sitting with an adult has so many non-verbal, themes to it to create more bias. You know? Like, oh, disability means all these other things that it doesn’t, and so how important for people to be thinking outside of just the infrastructure, but the operational pieces. Like, what are we giving adults versus children, and what is the social, cue that’s giving to people who are gonna be all around, never interacting for a moment? Taking those biases away and then trickling that into the masses.

Alycia Anderson: As simple as a little cup could be, how much, story that can tell or misinformation that could tell a disability.

Meaghan Walls: Yeah. You nailed a

Alycia Anderson: That’s interesting

Meaghan Walls: huge component about it. And then also when you mentioned the staff interactions and such, like with those social cues, do they get talked down to?

Alycia Anderson: Yeah.

Meaghan Walls: Are they patronized because

Alycia Anderson: I’m sure

Meaghan Walls: they have this in front of them, right? Do they assume that they can’t order for themselves? They must have the cognition of a young child because they’re using a cup meant for a young child.

Yeah, all of it

Alycia Anderson: So what is the what’s the message to businesses out there about this specifically? Hospitality, change in mindset, investment.

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Meaghan Walls: I think ultimately the industry just really needs to understand from this conversation today the industry really needs to understand what their missed opportunities are. And they need to be willing to be reflective and know that some of what they may learn is uncomfortable. And they need to, in order to build a better brand and a better experience and live up to the meaning of hospitality or other conversations that have to happen. But a whole other side of it, which we don’t have time to, to talk about today, is also the… and that’s where some of us or some of our conversations started, but is the talent pool, the employment side.

The access and inclusion on that side in the hospitality realm requires a lot of the same conversations because if your staff or your employees can’t access the systems or the environments or the processes or the technology, you’re also missing out on a huge talent pool.

I think we should talk about that for a minute. I don’t think we should glaze over that, because as you were talking in my, the back of my mind I’m saying to myself like and the employment pool. And like it’s selfish again, ’cause I relate it to like my experience of wanting to be a waitress and having no idea if anybody would ever hire me to actually physically do the job.

Alycia Anderson: Put margaritas on a tray on my lap and carry them through a restaurant. Would somebody hire me to do that? And somebody did. And it gave a massive, massive opportunity to the general population to believe in something that they are told they absolutely should not ever believe in or hire in that way.

And so talk about the magnitude of opportunity, not only for businesses to gain hiring talent that they are not tapping into, but also the secondary impact, and I don’t even know it’s secondary, it’s the additional impact of society seeing people with disabilities doing jobs outside of the typical in the box framework that we often put disability in, especially in hospitality, like opening doors.

Meaghan Walls: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: And I’m not trying to minimize one over the other, but how do we elevate that?

Meaghan Walls: It’s something that I don’t know that I have a good answer for. I think part of it is increasing, awareness and having conversations about opportunity, versus not, not leading with a need to accommodate because it’s not always needed. Not every disability is going to need an accommodation, but it’s getting past some of those longtime perceptions and creating a space where people can ask questions to better understand.

Because I think sometimes for whatever reason that I don’t understand, ’cause I’ve been immersed in this space for so long, is that disability is it’s often, has this taboo feeling. Like we can’t talk about it, we can’t ask about it, and if we can’t ask questions, we can’t learn, right?

And so whether that’s, how we can adapt an environment to work better for more people or it’s, what language we’re using in our job postings that may naturally exclude people because we say things like, the classic one is must be able to lift 50 pounds even though it really has nothing to do with the job, but it’s been a legacy job description that’s passed over.

Or this is another really interesting one. Must be able to verbally communicate well with people. And so it’s asking do they need to be able to verbally communicate? Is that required for the job? And some jobs it might be. Or do they need to effectively communicate with people? Because if it says orally or verbally, who communicates using sign language is going to not apply. They’re not going to see themselves in that role where they may be completely qualified. So it’s educating and informing the businesses on what inclusion can look like in different roles and in different processes, and how some of their policies may be actually what’s getting in the way.

Alycia Anderson: 100%. And may I add mindset. I can’t tell you how many of those job interviews that I went on to be, again, the waitress or whatever it is, and you immediately see you’re counted out in their eyes. You immediately… So it’s like, open your mind. Open your mind. Like, okay. So I wanna talk about your work at Center for Disability Inclusion.

I wanna talk about the summit because we definitely need to pitch it and get more people there, as many as possible. So let’s talk about, I wanna close with that.

Meaghan Walls: Okay. do you wanna start?

Alycia Anderson: Let’s talk about the work that you do, the services that you offer, how you’re helping companies.

Meaghan Walls: Yeah. So just for a short bit of context, my work in disability inclusion has spanned my entire now 20-year career. Makes me feel old. And but I, I’ve grown up immersed in the disability space, and I just have kind of- through the journey, my passion is rooted in removing barriers to participation.

And so that is across all types of activities, all types of environments. And with my consulting organization Assistology, I address it mostly in the built environment and then operational support for new organizations, new builds. The Center for Disability Inclusion is a national organization that works with businesses on their disability inclusion efforts. We firmly believe that every business has the opportunity and is positioned to do something and start somewhere, and we’re there to help them progress disability inclusion in their workplace, marketplace, and beyond. And we say beyond because every business is within a community, their employees are within that community, and so the way that they show up for their community shows up for their employees. So as a business, if you’re truly creating a culture of belonging for your employees, then you should care about the access that they have in their communities as well. So, how do you partner on that? And so we do a lot of training, we do a lot of consultation with businesses, and then the summit is our annual learning event an annual conference that we put on that addresses and tackles, topics and issues that impact business on that journey. And so this year’s theme is connecting for impact, it’s really about harnessing connection and collaboration and really understanding you can’t do it alone. It’s not a one-person journey, you have to look at opportunities to partner and collaborate, whether that’s with between businesses, with your community, inner team, within your own organization and get all of those different perspectives to drive progress forward and do it in a way that’s sustainable so that the champion doesn’t leave and everything falls apart. and so we’re super excited, which is why your keynote is going to just get everybody thinking in the right mindset and excited for the work. And so last year we did deep dive sessions, singular topic deep dive sections, and then the goal this year is building on that to okay how do we make it grow and make it sustainable? We have businesses across fourteen plus industries and twenty-three states that are represented all on a mission to do better in this space.

Alycia Anderson: And you are. When I came to your event at the end of last year I was so impressed with how many incredible companies were in the room, and your work and your partnership with them, it just, it, you could see how it guided them in their own passion. Like, they were so excited to be engaged and to share what they’ve implemented and what they believe in now, and all the things that they’re doing.

So y’all are doing really, really good work. I’m really proud to partner with you. And I’m really excited for September. So how do we, come to the event or attend virtually?

Meaghan Walls: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: We’ll leave this in the show notes too, but please let us know.

Meaghan Walls: Yeah. First we were super excited that it worked out that you were gonna be in Kansas City when we were doing our awards event last year. We got to have a little cameo.

Alycia Anderson: It was great. It was great.

Meaghan Walls: Yeah early bird pricing closes June 30th, and then tickets will stay on sale until they sell out for the in-person. But the event is September 24th.

It’s a hybrid event. In Kansas City is the in-person portion. And on our website at centerfordisabilityinclusion.org, if you go to events, there is a Disability Inclusion Summit tab. It has all of the information. you’re interested in sponsoring, we have sponsorship opportunities. There are virtual and hybrid tickets. We also have a pre-summit workshop if you wanna come down for two days. It’s on psychological safety for people with disabilities in the workplace. It’s gonna be fantastic. Lots of different ways to engage. Come see Alycia, come say hi to me, and all of our

Alycia Anderson: I love it

Meaghan Walls: other speakers and people.

It’ll be fun.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah. I’m so excited. So this was a really fantastic episode. Thank you so much for sharing all of your insight. I think we’re gonna have to do multiple of these ’cause we didn’t even tap into your personal story, which is, sorry, we’re gonna get to that next one.

Meaghan Walls: All right.

Alycia Anderson: So we end the show with a pushing forward moment, and this is a little mantra, something that you live by, a little advice.

It’s meant to catch you on the spot to see what comes into your mind organically in the moment. Can you give a little motivation, inspiration to our community as they sign off today?

Meaghan Walls: Yeah. I think if you’re involved in anything, whether that’s community building, something within your organization, doesn’t matter if you’re a volunteer or you’re supporting the school PTA or home, my favorite question is: Who does this not work for?

Alycia Anderson: Ooh

Meaghan Walls: Putting yourself from the lens of someone who experiences the world a little differently than you can have a big impact on creating more inclusive experiences for people.

Alycia Anderson: I love that. Meaghan, thank you so much for your time today. This was so awesome.

Meaghan Walls: Yeah. So good to see you

Alycia Anderson: Oh, so good to see you too. I’ll be seeing you in September.

Meaghan Walls: Sounds good

Alycia Anderson: Thank you to our community for showing up. We are leaving all of this information in the show notes. Go click, follow, support, get tickets, all the things. We will be back next week with another great episode.

And in the meantime, this has been Pushing Forward with Meaghan and Alycia, and that is literally how we roll on this podcast. We will see you next week.