Title:
Jay & Pamela: Disability Love, Reality TV & Becoming Unapologetically Seen on TLC

Subtitle:
TLC stars Jay and Pamela join Alycia Anderson to talk Season 2, disability pride, marriage, intimacy, fashion, accessibility, and why their love story is changing representation on reality TV.

Transcript:

Alycia Anderson: Welcome to Pushing Forward with Alycia, a podcast that gives disability a voice. Each week, we will explore topics like confidence, ambition, resilience, and finding success against all odds. We are creating a collective community that believes that all things are possible for all people. Open hearts, clear paths, let’s go.

I’m Alycia. I am so excited about this conversation. We literally have star power on the show today. I can’t believe it. I’ve been nurturing these relationships for a little bit of time. Trying. And today, I’m joined by Jay & Pamela, stars of TLC’s uplifting and GLAAD-nominated series, Jay & Pamela, which returns for its season two this week, on June 30th. And I have to tell you all, ever since I watched the first episode, I was telling Pamela about this before we started, the second I saw the promo image of you two sitting in your wheelchair, kissing, it just pulled me in because I’m in a dual disability relationship as well.

That type of representation is not out there very often. And when I saw it, I screamed in my house, “Marty, oh my God, come look at this.” So it was incredible to see that representation, then that TLC is lifting it up, love. And you both live with osteogenesis imperfecta type three. We definitely wanna talk about that a little bit as we move through the interview.

But this season is just full of beautiful milestones, living independently, dreaming big, runways, New York, love. I love how raw you are about love and access and marriage and intimacy and sex and disability pride and all of the things that come, and we need more of that in our community. So welcome both of you to my show.

I am genuinely so grateful that you took the time for this. Thank you so much.

Jay Thomas Manuel: I need you as my hype person for anything that I do know from now on.

Alycia Anderson: Oh!

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Thank you, so much. We’re so excited.

Alycia Anderson: Thank you. It’s so nice to meet both of you. I wanna start with a quote from Season 2, Episode 1, that just aired a couple days ago, go watch it. Pamela said after she came off of the runway, and she said something that was so beautiful. she said, ” There’s something really amazing about reaching your dreams alongside the one that you love.”

And it stopped me in my tracks, it reminded me of what a cool lived experience it is to find a partner that you love so deeply, that you can relate to, and then work together, reach dreams together, and all of the things. Talk about that quote just for a minute, ’cause your love story is so beautiful.

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Aw, thank you so much. I’m like, “Oh, I said that? Wow, that was really deep.” Yeah, it- that’s 100% how I felt and thank you for, listening to that part because I really meant what I said. I think sometimes we get stuck in moments when we feel like we’re the only ones, and we don’t realize that other people have went through it too.

And what’s been so eye-opening in Jay and I relationship and now marriage is I can have, let’s say for example, the worst day ever outside of my home, but I get to go home with not only my best friend. And same feelings when it comes to when one of us meets a milestone or a goal, or we both do it together.

It’s really just a lot of joy and peace that you get to share life and experience with your soulmate, And I think it was the perfect thing to do as my first big modeling experience is doing it with him.

Alycia Anderson: I love it. And you, y’all are just like, what you’re creating is so incredible. And on a such a much smaller scale, my husband and I have done the same thing together and reached a lot of stages. And when you can look out and say “Look at where we are. Look at we’ve made…” It’s incredible.

So I love that y’all are sharing those moments, and that you articulated it and I really connected to it. So anyways, I wanted to start there. Okay. So when the world first met you two we saw your love story, your humor, your independence, your family your everyday to day life. Going into season two, what feels different about who you are now compared to when the world met you in season one?

Pamela Chavez Manuel: You can start first.

Jay Thomas Manuel: I’ll start. I think from Season 1 to Season 2, there’s a lot of growth that happened individually and as a couple. And I feel like, I don’t know, maybe it’s just being on TV, but I think being on a show makes you have to even get more mature faster ’cause you’re in front of the world.

There’s… you can’t hide from that, and so when you see yourself on television, it’s like you’re seeing yourself from another perspective, and things that you think, “Oh I’ve healed through this,” or, “I’ve gotten past this,” and you’re in the moment of just filming or, something comes up and you’re like, “Oh, yeah, I guess I still got work to do.”

And I, I think that this show, at least from my perspective, has helped us grow in a lot of ways that I believe would’ve happened eventually, yet I do believe that this show has helped push us in a certain direction for the better just because of the experiences that you go through when filming a show.

And not only filming a show, but having essentially a part of your life in front of the whole world for people to consume and make judgments and assumptions and all that other stuff. So yeah I think it’s helped with a lot of growth personally, especially from Season 1 to now.

Alycia Anderson: I love it. And some of the things that you’re sharing and showing, like even as a disabled person myself, like transferring or like certain like things that are a little bit- … more intimate or, I watch you do things that for me I protect a little bit even like in my outward facing life.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: Because I might have my own insecurities about like- … “Oh, how will I look doing that?” Or “What is this? Wow, will that be…” Or, “Will I be able to accomplish it?” And you both just like dive in. And then the end user, the person who’s consuming your content is “Oh, wow. They did it. I probably could do that.”

… And so the fact that you’re open to doing that in front of the world is huge. It’s huge. It’s huge.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Thank you.

Alycia Anderson: So I love it. I love it. One of the most powerful things about this show is that you’re taking disability representation on a journey around the world. We were just talking about being vulnerable and sharing some of that literally in real time.

And was there one moment in your journey so far that you go, “Wow, this show, this marriage, this partnership, this journey in life that we are on right now together is much bigger than us”?

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Oh yeah, for sure. We are very even just fortunate to even have the opportunity to share our lives on television. And honestly, for me personally, and I’m sure Jay feels this way too, but it makes me really happy and excited for the future for the next generation and people younger than me.

Because I’ve had beautiful moments with people out in public that especially when it comes to young teenagers with disability or they’re also wheelchair users. And I don’t know how, but somehow I have made them look at certain things differently in a positive way, and that makes me so happy.

Because especially in season two, I’ve had moments where “Ooh, I don’t wanna open up about X, Y, Z,” like it’s a little embarrassing or, ” Oh, that’s a little too personal.” But when I have moments meeting someone that said, “X, Y, Z that you shared helped me or helped my family or helped me understand my child better,” whatever it is. I’m like, oh wow.That uncomfortability was worth it.

Alycia Anderson: What are the boundaries there? Like where do you draw the line of uncomfortable sharing and not? ‘Cause it feels like you both are very open. You talk about very intimate things. You’re, like, in the newlywed phase. Your intimacy life is on full display.

You are very open about it, and I love that. We need it. Like, how do you decide what you’re gonna share and what you’re not?

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Ooh, yeah. That is something that we are always having the conversation with honesty behind the scenes off-camera with each other. We tell each other “Hey, this is a boundary. Let’s not do X, Y, Z on the show,” or, “Okay, I’m okay with this.” Or there’s been moments where I’ll share about X, Y, Z, but I want to do it my way.

And we’ve been fortunate to have a good team. A good team that is not doing things to be malicious or exposing us in any type of way. And many things actually has been our ideas. And we’re like, “Hey I want to talk about X, Y, Z. Can we do that?” And they’re like, “Okay, what are you thinking?”

Or “Sure, we can do that.” So we’re constantly… Things are gonna change, especially as we get older and be married longer and our life changes. We’re constantly always checking in with each other ’cause maybe, last season we were okay with something and then now we’re not or whatever it is.

I know there was a lot of moments in both seasons where we both were like, “Yeah, I’m not sharing that.” And they’re like, “Okay. We won’t share that.” And there’s also been moments of sharing things that happened naturally. Uh, tragic things happened, uh,And we just so happened to capture it on camera, and we were like, “You know what?

Yeah, just go ahead and put it in the show. That’s okay.” Because even though in our personal lives it was very terrifying at the same time we want to not just share the good happy moments “Going to New York, yay,” but also sharing moments of being scared. And it’s okay to be scared.

Alycia Anderson: Being scared, being separated ’cause accessibility’s not there, like having all these unknowns that you share. And I think the dual disability relationship, especially two wheelchair users. ‘Cause my husband and I have gotten a lot of “No way, don’t marry her. She’s not gonna be able to take care of you.

Too many problems. Medical’s gonna get in the way.” Lots of bias. Talk about that. Like has it even been a thing? I assume it is, but that might be my own assumption. Like, how has it been received, like the dual disability, two wheelchairs navigating love?

Pamela Chavez Manuel: I feel like I’ve been talking so much that I’ll…

Alycia Anderson: Do you wanna take that one, Jay?

Jay Thomas Manuel: Oh that’s fine. You haven’t been talking too much. Anyway, … yeah, a lot of people make assumptions just in our day-to-day about seeing two wheelchair users, together. So I feel like that is a shared experience that a lot of us can relate to because, I feel like sometimes people, whether they wanna say it or not. I think some people are just looking for a caretaker in a partner. And what I mean by that is they only attribute someone’s value to what that person can do for them. And, for Pamela and I, there’s a lot of things that we are able to do for each other that transcend the physical things that maybe we’re not able to do for each other.

Yet, at the same time, what I think is funny is even for the things that we’re not physically able to do, there’s some able-bodied people that mentally can’t handle certain things for their partner, or that we have to handle like hospital trips, and just tough moments in relation to our disabilities.

And so it’s very interesting ’cause there’s a lot of emphasis on what we physically can do. And, there’s so much more to a relationship and marriage than just what someone can do for you in that sense. It’s supposed to be a partnership, and you lean on each other, and you take care of each other in the best capacity that you can.

And so it has been interesting just for how people have received the show to see us as people, which I feel like if you’re someone that’s in the disability community you get what I’m saying. Because- … I think sometimes we’re so dehumanized when you’re disabled, and there’s such a emphasis on the fact that you are disabled that they can’t focus on anything else outside of that.

And so our show, what I feel like it has been doing, is showing that, we go through the same things that the average person, has as far as a lived experience, and it’s not all that different. And even if it is different it’s like we, we may do things differently, but we still are similar in a lot of ways.

We’re still human beings. We still have desires. We still have, talking about our intimacy, all these things, all these topics that are, like, taboo. And even, in this season we’re talking about building a family, which is a bunch of discourse, as we know, about should disabled people have kids in the first place.

It’s it’s a whole thing. And so we’re talking about a lot of topics that I’m personally, and I know Pamela feels the same way, it’s exciting to talk about, especially in reality TV because for us it was important to create a show as authentic as possible in this space. Because we knew that representation-wise we are the first of wheelchair users, little people, all the stuff combined, the first of to do this.

And so you want to do it in a way that is respectful and helps the next person that ends up, doing TV or whatever medium or space, and so there’s a lot that we’ve just had to and still continue to consider when creating this, because we talk about this all the time we appreciate obviously able-bodied people that watch our disability community felt like they were being represented properly.

Because at the end of the day our disabilities affect us every single day. We don’t get to escape it. We don’t get to wake up and, like putting on a suit and be like, “Oh, you know what? I’m tired of this today. I’m just gonna put this over here.” And so we were hoping that other disabled people would see themselves in some way in our show.

And so that’s been really exciting for both of us to be able to have that impact even as two people out of the billions of people in the world. So it’s just, it’s a huge opportunity, and we don’t take it lightly or take it for granted. Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah, and the impact is huge. And like I was saying y’all do stuff that is showcasing authentic life. And it does a few things that for me as a woman, like I haven’t done myself, and I see her doing stuff, and I go, “You know what? Like, why haven’t I done that?”

You’re seeing the reaction- … of the other person, like interacting, and you’re like, ” Why have I been so afraid of that?” And those types of things are so big. It’s huge for our community but even more for the general population that’s out there, like, oh, you can’t be a parent.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Mm-hmm.

Alycia Anderson: You, you don’t have sex. You don’t… You can’t get married. You’re gonna marry someone-

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yeah

Alycia Anderson: … with a disability? And the fact that you-

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yeah, why not?

Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: The fact that you have the same disability- … and you watch out for each other and you advocate for each other and you understand one another is huge, like huge- … in a relationship.

And I know for me, like anytime I had any relationship with another able-bodied person, there was always this disconnect- … of “Oh, I gotta explain. And here I go again.” I’m like, “Ugh.” And I’m assuming that you feel that- … that goes away, and it’s nice, right?

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Oh yeah, for sure. I’ve also, before Jay, I would … I did date people with disabilities, but also those without disabilities. And what was really refreshing with Jay when we started connecting is you would think we would talk about our disability and be like, “Oh, what was that like?” Or whatever. No.

We just went straight to, “What are your hobbies? What are your goals? What, what makes you tick?” Like, all these fun, better conversations instead of, like you said, always having to explain yourself about your medical stuff.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah. I love it. Okay, so can we talk about New York a little bit? Yeah. I love it. Let’s bring it to the runway, please. Love, love it, yeah. Okay, so you go to New York for your first time in season two. And I don’t know, let’s talk about it a little bit. I know that was, like, a bucket list moment for…

I think this wasn’t your first time on a runway, correct, Jay? You’ve done that.

Jay Thomas Manuel: No, it wasn’t my first time

Alycia Anderson: so you’re an old pro, and your beautiful wife was having her moment-

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yes

Alycia Anderson: … in the spotlight.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yes.

Alycia Anderson: Talk about what that meant for you to have that type of representation in an industry that they’re starting to come around a little bit, but oftentimes leaving, our community out.

Talk about how that, the impact, how it felt for you personally all the things.

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Ooh. Yeah, it… Like you said, things are starting to see some improvement about seeing different bodies and different people on display. But I know that you mentioned that you have worked with Victoria’s Secret, and I think that’s amazing because I myselfactually used to be more reserved about showing putting on shorts.

I used to be very shy on wearing shorts or wearing certain things because I would be so in my head of “Oh, my, my body’s gonna look weird … or I’ve never seen someone like myself wear a bikini and all these things. And when we went away in that moment, my… I know we talk about inner child, but my inner teenager, when you’re a teenager and you’re figuring out your style and your body and- and all these things in that moment, my inner teenager was so happy because I was so excited of the thought that other people with disabilities, especially young girls and women can see that you wear the clothes. Don’t let the clothes wear you. And that is something that I have been constantly learning and growing myself behind the scenes.

And it was such an honor as well because we were the only two wheelchair users in that runway. And we are very grateful for that opportunity, and we really hope that it inspires more in the fashion industry or even just commercials. Just seeing us everywhere.

Seeing just diversity everywhere because everyone wears clothes. Everyone wears underwear, so I just hope that there’s more diversity of different bodies everywhere.

Alycia Anderson: You owned that, and from an outsider looking in, you wouldn’t have known that there could have been any insecurities behind, the scenes. And, I’m a little bit older than y’all, I’m 50, and I didn’t wear a pair of shorts until my 50th birthday. And I prepped for it all year last year.

All year, and I’m like, “You’re setting yourself free. Set yourself free.” So I love… And I did, and nobody even noticed it. So I got a compliment on my bikini. That was the first time I ever did that in 50 years. So the fact that you’re doing that now at your age for young women is, and doing it in such a powerful way, is so incredible.

So congratulations ’cause you are leading the path.

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Oh, thank you so much. Congratulations to you too.

Alycia Anderson: Aw. Thank you.

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Wow, that’s amazing. And yeahit’s wild that you said that because you’re also very beautiful. And it took me a while to wear a bikini, and my first time was last year actually, last summer. And like you said, I felt free. And like you said, no one cared.

Everyone is out here with stretch marks or extra skin or whatever it is. And then you’re like, “Oh, okay. I can do this.” And you also, get to wear cute- more cute stuff.

Alycia Anderson: Totally. We gotta go to the beach together in a bikini one of these days. It’ll be on my bucket list.

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Oh yeah, definitely.

Alycia Anderson: So Jay, do you wanna share a little bit about, I know that you are, you do music. Tell me a little bit about your beautiful talents.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. I, I’m a person that I literally just if I wanna do it, then I’m gonna figure out a way, so I’ve been able to do a lot of different things. I’m also very intentional though and being … I feel like I’ve been led to, to do things based off of my bigger mission.

My, my bigger mission is to create a positive impact on the world. And so through that, I’ve been able to do different things such as what you mentioned, music production. I also am, doing voice acting. I got Emmy-nominated for that role, which was just really awesome.

Thank you. Thank you.

And of course, doing the modeling, and I just … I’m always looking forward to what’s next. I don’t like to box myself in. I know I’m looking to do acting, more speaking engagements actually, ’cause for as much as I talk, like I do enjoy talking to a group of people and individuals and things like that.

And again, I just, I don’t like to box, I don’t like to box myself in. I’ve been able to do so many incredible things, work with a lot of different brands over the years, and just continuing to do that. And it’s nice to be able to represent disability in different spaces, in different mediums, and and also sometimes being the first person of whatever it is.

And so yeah I’m just, I’m grateful that my gifts have led me to do what I’m doing now. And again, I just look forward to what’s next in the future. I just … I’m super excited

Alycia Anderson: Can I ask you something?

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: So I’m previewing your, or watching your episodes- … and I’m, I learn a lot from y’all. So this is another thing that I watch. You, Jay, specifically do, and something that I’m uncomfortable with a lot, you’re, you allow people to come in and help you adapt in environments if you can’t if you need help transferring, or you wanna get up…

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: …on a chair, or you wanna do something that you might need a little bit of help. And I know growing up I was always like, “I got it. I don’t need help. Nobody touch me.” It took me a really long time to say “Okay, you know what? I’m gonna teach you how to pick me up so I can actually get somewhere that I can’t get.”

How has that journey been for you? To get to the point of “Hey, let me show you how to pick me up. I wanna go”?

Jay Thomas Manuel: Okay, so I’m a lot different than Pamela. She’s more probably close to like you of like she doesn’t want people to be doing stuff like that. She’s not just having anybody and everybody doing things. I like to attribute part of it to my personality, but also with being autistic and ADHD, I think I have I don’t know, this mentality that like, oh that’s fine.

So I do think that being neurodivergent does create a filter on probably a lot of things that I likely would be more concerned about without it. So I think it’s a combination of maybe that’s how I would’ve been if I wasn’t, but I also attribute, like I know that there’s a lot of neurodivergent people that can relate to that, where they’re kinda just “Ah, that’s fine.”

So I do think it’s a kind of a mixture to be honest. And depending on what it is, if I need something to happen where it’s I’ll just ask somebody for help with it. So I don’t know. I don’t really think it took me any time to build it up, because I’ve been like that even when I was a kid.

So- Yeah … I don’t think there was a conversation that I ever had with myself like, “Oh, you’re gonna have to have this…” I just always been like that. And even when things would happen, like I’ve had falls, I’ve been like dropped and I still am like, “Oh it’s all right,” I lived. I made it through.

I didn’t die. It’s all right, and so yeah I’m like the best and also worst person to ask about that ’cause I’m just like, “Yeah, that’s cool. No problem. I’ll teach you how to pick me up,” and I just … It’s like the initiation, I feel to be my friend. Like I’m teaching you how to pick me up, you’re gonna know.

But Pamela’s complete opposite so complete opposite. She won’t do the same thing.

Alycia Anderson: And Pamela and I are a lot alike, I can tell for sure. Yeah. I am complete opposite to you. But I would like to be better at it, so I like watching you do that ’cause you’re like, “Okay, that wasn’t a big deal. Like, why do I get so stuck in my head all the time?” So

Jay Thomas Manuel: I get stuck in my head about other things, so you know- what? … don’t worry. Oh, everything else that I, that doesn’t matter. It’s like the things that you think, “Oh yeah, you should probably be concerned about these things.” I’m like, “Ah, it’s fine.” But the stuff that’s super small that doesn’t matter in 10 minutes from now are the things that I get hung up on.

And so that, that is the funny thing about being neurodivergent, is the stuff that I probably should, would probably care, should care more about, I’m just like, “Oh that’s fine. It’ll work out.” And the things that really don’t matter probably to the average person are the things that I, like, have to work getting past.

So you know, we all have our things. I have my things for sure. And yeah, but when it comes to those kind of stuff, like getting picked up and, yeah I think I’ve taught every friend that I’ve had how to pick me up at some point.

Alycia Anderson: Will you talk a little bit about your disability? Like whatever you’re comfortable with, and explain it to anybody who might not, I don’t know who wouldn’t know who you are, but anybody that doesn’t know who you are, will you explain your disability just a little bit?

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yeah, we have osteogenesis imperfecta type III, which is our physical disability, which affects us in the way of that we’re short stature, and we’re also full-time wheelchair users, and we do break easily. We broke a lot more when we were younger, and, but, however, it’s still possible to break easier.

In my case, it actually affects my teeth, too. I have dentinogenesis imperfecta, so my teeth are brittle. Even my adult teeth, which I… Yeah. Anyway, but And OI has affected us– That’s a short word for it. But OI has affected a lot of ways. It comes with eye issues, and yeah. And it’s also– it’s based off of a lack of collagen that’s in our bones, which if you think about collagen, it affects like your skin.

And like for Pamela specifically, like she bruises kinda easily. And so there’s just so many things that OI can affect just based off of everything that it comes with. And it is super– It’s a rare disorder. And yeah, so we’re just– we’re unique in that way that no one in our family that we know of has been diagnosed with OI.

So we are the first of our kind, to, to exist in our families. And for both of us, the doctor said that we weren’t gonna live past like pretty much toddler age or younger. I know for Pamela, I think it was like one years old, and apparently for me it was like three.

We’re still over here yapping away. We past that. So that’s our physical disabilities. That’s our physical disability as it goes. I’ve had 20-something surgeries. Pamela hasn’t had any surgeries at all, but she did do Prolia treatments, which I also did, which are supposed to help with increasing like your bone density, and hopefully just helping with creating like stronger bones in a way, and hopefully lessen like the chronic pain and breaks and stuff like that.

And yeah, a lot of my surgeries were rodding surgeries so I have rods in my legs. I also had a spinal fusion. And yeah. And then I, like I mentioned, I’m autistic and I have ADHD, and that’s that. Pamela, do you have anything you wanted to add that I missed?

Pamela Chavez Manuel: I don’t know if you said this, but

Jay Thomas Manuel: Oh, we’re hard of hearing too. Shoot.

Pamela Chavez Manuel: I was about to say that. You can develop hearing loss and unfortunately people with OI, especially the severe type like ours you can have organ failure. You can. It’s not gonna say that like it’s gonna happen, butit’s possible because even your organs is made of has collagen in it.

But what’s interesting is even though we are short stature our organism, our reproductive system is the same as an average adult.

Alycia Anderson: Amazing.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Is the same size, yeah. Okay. And I do have hearing aids.

Alycia Anderson: That’s incredible to know, and especially as you’re navigating this parent journey to see where it might take you. That’s beautiful. Thank you for painting that picture so in detail.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: So with the show, this is a groundbreaking show. It’s funny, it’s complicated, it’s ambitious, it’s intimate, it’s independent, it’s stylish, it’s romantic.

What part of you or the show this season are you most proud of?

Tough question.

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Gosh, That’s funny you said that because we were filming for a long time, and to the point that being on camera feels normal. It’s … I’m trying to remember what all happened in season two and what happened recently that’s not on camera. Ooh, there is something that I personally get to finally do.

But I can’t give spoilers, so sorry. And yeah, we also get to travel in, in season two, which is something that I’ve learned to love because I’m actually scared of planes. And now I am getting better at enjoying the process of being in the plane. But I can definitely say for sure I’m super proud of both of us because especially Jay because I have been fortunate to see his growth every single year, even before we had a TV show.

And we’re very lucky that we get to also share our dreams and milestones, and it’s captured on film, and we get to see it forever. And so when we’re old and gray, we can see our younger selves and, be happy about whatever moment or that we accomplish X, Y, Z. I’m really excited to, to see that.

Alycia Anderson: It’s beautiful. I feel like from season one to season two, y’all are just even more bold and brave and, just being the representation that we really need. It’s really good. So people that are gonna watch season two, what are you hoping that their takeaway is? What are you hoping for?

Jay Thomas Manuel: Ooh. One of the takeaways that I hope, and I always hope for, is that we as a society just start to see togetherness as a people. I feel like we’re so divided in so many ways and I just really want people to come together. Every single day I see something.

I’m like, “Man, we’re so divided as a society,” and I just want people to come together and realize that we’re so similar in so many ways, and that we share a lot of things that you wouldn’t even realize. Someone may look at us and think, “Oh, we’re so different,” and then they watch the show and they’re like, “Wait.

Oh they went through this scenario,” or I’ve been through that same thing,” or, “I had these same thoughts.” And yeah I don’t know, I just hope that our show brings… continues to bring people together and create conversations out there that maybe they weren’t having to help just open up their minds to different things.

And also I want disabled people to be seen as the human beings that we are because I think a lot of times able-bodied people have this “Oh, it’s not gonna happen to me,” “I’m not gonna become disabled.” And a lot of times I feel like society as a whole just thinks about disability when it directly affects them, and accessibility or lack thereof affects everybody, and the hope at least, and I’m sure Pamela feels the same way, is like people just start to think about it beyond just themselves and realize that, like, all the… all of these things, a lot of these things that we talk about impact people, impact the world in some way even if you feel like it doesn’t directly affect you because you’re not a wheelchair user, or you’re not a little person, or you don’t have, a disability or whatever the case is.

But accessibility affects every single person. And so yeah I really do hope that the show creates these thoughts and moves things into a really great direction to help people that come after us really just navigate the world in a better way. I just… I want disabled people especially to be able to navigate the world in a way that doesn’t make them feel othered or like you’re having to fight for something that should just be, yeah. So yeah.

Alycia Anderson: Hallelujah. That’s the work. That’s the work, and you’re doing it.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Thank you.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah, really important. I agree 100%, 100%. Okay, so what are we dreaming up? What is the future? Before we start to wrap up and get to our pushing forward moment, number one, did we miss anything that is monumentally important for this big week of the launch of season two, or did we miss anything monumental?

Pamela Chavez Manuel: So much happened in season two that it’s almost hilarious because, you’re just living your life, and then you think about it, and you’re like, “Oh, that all happened in one month? That’s wild.” So I, yeah I… We both and everyone in our team, we are just so grateful for this opportunity, and it’s been a positive experience.

And we just hope that the show brings them either some type of comfort or makes them laugh for some time or learn something. I don’t know. But we hope that y’all enjoy it.

Alycia Anderson: Wear a bikini for the first time, whatever…

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: Do it. Love it. Okay, so what are we dreaming for the future? Tell every person that’s sitting on this episode right now listening, our community and beyond, all the corporate exposure that’s listening right now, what are you dreaming of?

Who do you wish you wanna work with? What do you wanna do?

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Ooh. Like you said in season two I do some modeling for the first time. I would really love to keep moving forward with that. And I also am very passionate about acting. And I would like to do acting and do a comedy show. I think that would be fun. And especially since I’m bilingual I am also fluent in Spanish.

It would be cool to also do a sitcom in Spanish. I don’t know. That would be fun. And I can’t mention this right now because I don’t wanna spoil season two, but there’s two big things that we talk about, and one ended up being okay, and then the other one is still an ongoing conversation.

And we’re still going to keep moving forward and seeing where life take us when it comes to a lot of topics in season two. And yeah I want to get more serious in modeling and acting. And I started shopping Victoria’s Secret actually a couple years ago or something like that because I saw a model in a wheelchair using their new adapted bras and I bought my first bra from Victoria’s Secret because of that ad.

And so yeah, I would love to do Victoria’s Secret. And Jay and I, we both did Sephora last year during Pride Month. But I would also love to do things in the makeup world as well because it, for those who can’t really see I’m wearing makeup and I just love makeup. That’s also something that I’m passionate about.

Alycia Anderson: I see all those things for you. I worked with Victoria’s Secret consulting and spoke at several of their… They’re a strategic partner for me. So I know some people I probably could introduce you to, number one. But I worked with them on that adaptive line, so I love it that you that just connected me to that too.

I love it. And there’s so much opportunity in that right now.

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Oh, thank you.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah. What about you, Jay?

Jay Thomas Manuel: Oh, man. I one, like I mentioned before, I’d love to do more speaking engagements. I really am passionate about that. I also wanna do acting as well. I’ve done a lot of auditions and stuff like that, but I’d love to just actually explore it even deeper. More voice acting, ’cause I’ve actually really enjoyed that since I started doing it.

Music stuff, modeling for sure, ’cause I always tell people I’m gonna be on the cover of GQ, so I haven’t given up on that. Uh.

Alycia Anderson: I believe that, that’s true.

Jay Thomas Manuel: And, my friend Winston, he’s actually inspired me a lot like you were talking about the consulting world in that space.

And I’m like, “Oh, man,” like I feel like I have a lot of thoughts, especially in the creator space. Would love to talk more about that. And like I said I’m really just if it feels aligned, I’m pretty much down to do really anything. And as long as it aligns and it’s moving forward with the mission, like I talked about, of creating a positive impact.

I love working with brands. I love creating for brands, and I’ve been fortunate to do even prior to doing the show. So yeah, I, just love to have fun. Really I love being able to find out that oh man, I’m good at this, or I can, do this thing. And yeah, I’ve just…

I’ve fallen into so many things now that I probably wouldn’t have imagined of doing, and I love it. So yeah there’s more to come. I feel like I’m excited. I’m open to what, what comes, and I’m game, really.

Alycia Anderson: To the stars for you both.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: Or you’ve actually maybe already reached the stars, so what’s next?

Jay Thomas Manuel: Listen, I’m always looking forward.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah, there you go. We’re gonna leave all of the information to find your season on TLC. And a shout-out to TLC for all of the amazing representation that you have specifically with disability in your network. Lead, preach, keep going. We need more and more. And I just feel like TLC is literally…

It’s all I watch, honestly.

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: So I’m a fan of TLC anyways. But the representation that’s coming out from the different shows from a disability standpoint is literally groundbreaking. So we’ll leave all the information for your show, how to get in touch with you two, your social medias. Companies out there, hire, book, speak, partner, runway.

Jay Thomas Manuel: I wanna mention something. Pamela and I, we do want an accessible vehicle. And then since we’re on this platform, I’m gonna talk about it. Right now. We would love to have an accessible van or vehicle that we can be able to utilize. Of course you’ll explore on season two, but that is something that’s big for us that I just it would upset me if I didn’t mention it.

And my one other thing is I have the vision to create luxury apartments, but specifically for disabled people ’cause I really like the real estate side of things. But making it accessible, like financially and all that stuff because- … just for what Pamela and I have been able to experience living in the place that we do, we know that’s a very privileged experience to have, and I would love other disabled people who maybe, are on government assistance to be able to still experience…

Alycia Anderson: Yeah.

Jay Thomas Manuel: …that experience without having it to be, a money barrier because I know that is a barrier for a lot of people. And so yeah, I’d want those apartments to have certain services like transportation and all these things that, you know us as disabled folks depending on what we got going on, can experience.

And so yeah, that’s my spiel. I just wanted to say that.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah, and that’s the re-education, and you gotta bring that on your platform. I just spoke- … at a design firm and they’re like, “What is the one thing that you want us to take away from this?” I’m like, “Universal design, go beyond ADA.”

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yes.

Alycia Anderson: ” And can you make it beautiful please? ‘Cause we don’t need to feel like we’re in the hospital when we…”

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yes.

Alycia Anderson: …talk accessible. So- True. Yeah … beauty and function and availability please.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yes.

Alycia Anderson: And it benefits everybody because everybody is…

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yes.

Alycia Anderson: … okay. But that’s a …

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yes.

Alycia Anderson: … whole ‘nother show. Okay, so Disability Pride, we’re kicking it off together. This is the last question. Thank you for spending so much time with me. Your team is probably like, ” are we done yet?” So sorry, we went a little bit…

Jay Thomas Manuel: It’s so fine.

Alycia Anderson: …but it’s Disability Pride. We always end the show with a pushing forward moment to inspire our community to go out and wear a bikini, find a runway, do whatever they’re dreaming of. Can you think of a pushing forward moment that is related to something in Disability Pride Month that you can sew it in together.

A mantra, a saying, a quote, something that kind of motivates you and maybe also lifts up being proud of who we are in this month, and always, by the way, but…

Pamela Chavez Manuel: This might sound like cliche or whatever, but do your best to not let the world identify you. And it’s super important to keeping your head up high because the world is the world, and there will be moments when you feel you’re not in the part of society or you shouldn’t be in the, in certain conversations, et cetera.

And only you know what you are capable of. I’m talking that to myself as well because that’s something that I learned a lot in season two. And giving myself grace because there are moments where you are frustrated with your disability and that’s okay. But also like I told Jay, who knows what my life would have been like if I didn’t have a disability?

I wouldn’t have met Jay, you know? And that sounds horrifying. I’m like, “No.” So if I had to be in a chair in this lifetime for me to meet my soulmate, then that’s awesome. Because Jay has taught me to talk to myself more gentle.

Alycia Anderson: Oh.

Pamela Chavez Manuel: And sometimes we have moments where oh, we are mean to ourselves, and we don’t realize it.

We’re like, ” Oh I’m stupid,” or whatever. And then I start to envision myself as a little kid wearing pigtails, and I’m like, “Oh, that’s mean. I wouldn’t tell a cute little girl in pigtails- … that she’s stupid, so why am I telling myself that?” And so yeah, don’t let the world identify you.

Treasure your heart and your soul, and try to challenge yourself every day to be a better version of yourself.

Alycia Anderson: I love that so much. I’m gonna do that. Picture myself as a little girl maybe won’t be as hard on myself. It’s a good thing to think about. Okay, Jay.

Jay Thomas Manuel: And I would just say that your value is not by the things that you do. Like, You have value just because you are you, you know? I think a lot of times, just in general, we feel like we have to do something extraordinary to be worthy and I just don’t believe. Like, you’re worthy because you are.

You don’t have to have a TV show to contribute something to the world or to your community or anything like that. You’re just extraordinary ’cause you are you, and you just do what you can every single day to be that better version of yourself. And hey that’s really what matters.

Don’t… Try not to put so much on yourself to think that you have to just do this huge thing to be worthy of just great things in life. You’re just worthy because you’re here and, you deserve to be here. And be proud of yourself even if nobody else is validating what you’re, doing or…

Yeah, so that’s what I would say.

Alycia Anderson: I love that. And I think I second that, that I learned in my long life and career that I always thought I had to achieve something more, a new degree, another this, a different stage, a blah blah blah. And honestly, people were really just wanting to know the root of the story way back with the little girl in the pigtails navigating you don’t belong here, you know what I mean?

So congratulations. I’m so proud to be a part of this community with you two. I’m so proud… My disability pride right now is that you said yes to come and meet me and be on my show. Thank you so-

Pamela Chavez Manuel: Yes, absolutely.

Jay Thomas Manuel: It’s so fun.

Alycia Anderson: … much. You have no idea…

Jay Thomas Manuel: Thank you.

Alycia Anderson: … how grateful I am. Thank you so much, seriously.

Jay Thomas Manuel: We loved it.

Alycia Anderson: Oh, I loved it too. Okay, I’m gonna wrap up. Thank you. Everybody that is listening to this, go, make sure you are watching Jay & Pamela. The second season is out. It’s launched this week. It is so good. Support their show. Support, frankly, all of TLC’s shows that are doing such a great job on representation.

And thank you for showing up again. Please share this episode, subscribe, review, we’re growing at rapid rate. Help us do it more. And this has been Pushing Forward with Pamela, Jay, and Alycia, and that is how- … we roll on this podcast.

Jay Thomas Manuel: Yes

Alycia Anderson: Until next week.