Title:
The World Is More Accessible Than You Think | Karen Morales on Disability and Travel

Subtitle:
From Japan to Morocco to Sicily, a wheelchair user is proving that accessible adventures are possible

Transcript:

Alycia Anderson: Welcome to Pushing Forward with Alycia, a podcast that gives disability a voice. Each week, we will explore topics like confidence, ambition, resilience, and finding success against all odds. We are creating a collective community that believes that all things are possible for all people. Open hearts, clear paths, let’s go.

Welcome back to Pushing Forward with Alycia. I’m Alycia. We’re gonna talk about taking trips today. I have a question: what if the trip that you thought was impossible was actually just waiting right around the corner of access, and the right planning, and the right person who understood what you need before you even have to ask?

Wow, that sounds luxurious, actually, when you’re going on vacation. Today’s guest, Karen Morales, she’s a luxury travel advisor. She’s a speaker, so anybody out there looking for speakers. She’s an accessibility travel advocate who is helping redefine what it means for disabled travelers and their families to experience worldwide, travel experiences with ease, confidence, joy, and a lot of possibility. Karen lives with limb-girdle muscular dystrophy. I’m very interested to learn all about this, and she navigates the world as a wheelchair user. Wheelchair user sisters. Love it. Her lived experience has been deeply shaped in the way that she thinks, travels, vacations, and shows up. She leads a lot of accessibility initiatives and I really am so excited to learn about your business, your company, and the travel and accessibility industry, and all the opportunity that is waiting for companies to make it more accessible for us.

Karen, welcome to my show. It’s so nice to meet you.

Karen Morales: So nice to meet you.

Alycia Anderson: Okay. So let’s start with feeling of travel. For so many people, travel represents what? Freedom?

Karen Morales: Freedom, independence, joy, action, adventure. I think it’s all the things. I think travel’s always been a core part of my life. I’ve always been the planner in my family. I selected my own summer camp in fourth grade with spreadsheets, plotted out my colleges, told my parents which route we were gonna take at Disney when I was, under middle school.

I think this has always just been inherent. I am that friend that planned every trip, every spring break we ever took in our entire lives. And I think that, when I started using a wheelchair, I didn’t want that identity to stop. I was still that fun girl who liked to go places, and I couldn’t imagine that ending.

Alycia Anderson: So when you think about luxury, rest, adventure, possibility, freedom in travel as a wheelchair user, as a woman with a disability, and as somebody who’s part of the community, what does travel represent typically for us?

Karen Morales: Yeah, I really could feel the difference. So I haven’t always used a wheelchair. I really started using one full-time in 2020. And, prior to 2020, I was globally traveling for work, and we globally traveled well: advertising agency, bougie hotels, Santa Monica, Vancouver, you get the drill. when I took my first trip that wasn’t just an adaptive ski weekend at a Holiday Inn in New Hampshire, I showed up to a five-star hotel in Hawaii thinking, “I’m gonna splurge for a few days because I wanna feel pampered, and it’s my first big trip, and it’s been a couple of really hard years.”

And they gave me a room with stairs And I thought something here is truly broken. I can consistently hit a three-star at $200 a night without any problems, how in the world is an applauded top hotel in the world not able to receive me? And I thought that felt wrong. And I think the options out there felt very geared and looked a little bit more center-like.

And I thought, I don’t wanna change the way that I travel. In fact, I actually wanna lean into something a little bit nicer now that life has gotten so challenging. And I think that’s one of the gaps that we’re trying to solve. Not to say that luxury travel is the only way to do it because it’s not. I do both.

But I think, and I know from my marketing background, that the more money you’re able to show in revenue possibility, the faster the changes come.

So by focusing a little more at the top of the house in the luxury space, we’ve been able to demonstrate fast value to the tune of $75 million in the first year of our program

Alycia Anderson: Okay. And what does that mean? That’s incredible

Karen Morales: $75 million of sales solely around accessible trips. And what does that mean, right? Alycia, it means wheelchairs, sure. It also means the people that travel with a cane. It means your nephew that has seven food allergies and needs a custom menu. It means the child traveling with a family that is autistic and needs some special supports or a kids club that’s inclusive.

It means vision and hearing differences. It means chronic illness. I need a HEPA filter. I need a med fridge. I need breakfast in my room because I can’t get up before noon. So they’re all things that we can accommodate for, and frankly, this is what the industry should do. It’s all about hospitality.

Alycia Anderson: I am having all these flashes of me traveling right now. I come from a corporate background too.

Karen Morales: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: And, I used to be whining and dining and I still do, but those were the days where I would get upgrades, and then I would get downgraded again ’cause they didn’t have the accessibility features in the rooms that had all the fancy things and the views and the this and the that. So this is incredible that you are bringing this advocacy to companies because I don’t think they think about…

Karen Morales: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: …your approach.

Karen Morales: I think we’re approaching it a little bit differently because I think for good reason, right? It’s usually the stick and then the carrot. For a lot of years, it’s been a lot about compliance, and it’s been a lot about infrastructure, which was necessary. We needed all of the ADA supports that people fought very hard to get.

So I’m appreciative of all of that. But the place that I see the most impact is when I ask a room of suppliers, we’re talking, the big hotel brands, Hyatt, Hilton, Marriott, Four Seasons, Peninsula, and I say, “How many of you have someone in your life that has slowed down, that has dementia, that has a bad hip, that has a food allergy, that is autistic, has a service animal?”

Hands go up. Great. ” How many of you hoteliers have booked a trip for someone with one of these needs?” Every hand goes up. Next question: “How many of you have that information readily available in your marketing materials?” Every hand goes down. And that gap, they feel, because every conversation I’ve ever had with a supplier at a major chain has said, “I have a sister, a cousin, a husband, a neighbor who lives this, I know what you’re talking about.”

So I think when you start normalizing this a bit and you make it less about infrastructure or compliance, which are not sexy, and you lean in and say, “I’m talking about hospitality. I’m talking about small things,” that’s when it gets interesting.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah, and hospitality’s like love and humanity, right?

Karen Morales: Exactly. That’s exactly it. A really great story is I just came back from Japan, spent about 18 days with my kids, there was one hotel that didn’t have a lot of accessibility on its website. It was the Halekulani in Okinawa, Japan. There’s also one in Hawaii. But two weeks before my trip when I emailed them to just confirm my room, they said, “Yes, Ms. Morales, you have a wheelchair accessible room. Here’s a picture of the bathroom. Here is the shower chair that we would like to put in the room. Is there anything else you would need?” I was shocked at that, and I thought, “In all of my experiences, usually about 40 hotels a year, no one’s ever done that.” And it’s so simple, right? It’s just CRM. It’s a simple recontact strategy. I was already feeling calm and trusting. When I got there, the triple room we were in, there was no way for me to get to the balcony overlooking the ocean. And I said, “This is gonna be hard.” And the woman said, “One moment please.” Before I knew it, I was upgraded.

I was upgraded to a room because the bathrooms in that hotel are universal design. They’re all walk-in showers. They’re all very big and spacious. I thought to myself, this.” It’s having, like you said, the ability to move someone into a bigger space, to be able to give that upgrade because you’ve designed a hotel that really has less barriers, and you’ve confirmed what you offer ahead of time.

And those little things are felt, right? I felt welcomed, I felt relaxed, and it already soothes the burden of fear, which is usually what travelers are facing when they’re going around the world with a disability

Alycia Anderson: When you said that story about them sending you pictures of the bathroom and the shower chair, my eyes popped out of my

Karen Morales: I know.

Alycia Anderson: has never, ever…

Karen Morales: Never happened.

Alycia Anderson: Wow

Karen Morales: And when I talked to hotels, I said, “You have a page on accessibility on your website. Instead of just checking the compliance box, put this information there. Show me what the room looks like. Don’t make me go on an expedition to find this information.” It’s not that challenging.

And I found some really great customer service lovers in Asia specifically around this. We’re working with Corey Lee to work on a trip for China. He needs a certain height bed, and we’re measurements from the hotels, and they’re looking at can we double up mattresses to make it the certain height?”

I’m like, “I’d like to see a video and a photo of that before I say yes.” I’m not gonna approve that. I’m gonna let him look at it and say, “What do you think? Does this clear the 25 inch gap well enough for you?” I think those are the things that we can do as travel advisors that’s really irreplaceable.

Technology isn’t gonna be able to do that for you. They don’t have the cell phone number of the GM of the hotel that you can use. So those are how I think we can help. And because Fora overall does so much business, today we were in five years we got unicorn status. We’re a billion dollar valuation company because of what we’ve done in five years, but it’s not only accessibility, and I like that. Because I think travel is travel, and travel should be inclusive of anyone, whether you don’t like foam, down pillows, I need a roll-in shower.

We should be able to accommodate people and let them have these experiences.

Alycia Anderson: That’s incredible. I love that you’re taking that kind of universal approach. Accessibility versus pillow even like every time I travel, my biggest pain point is, I’m speaking on stages all the time…

Karen Morales: Uh huh.

Alycia Anderson: …many ADA rooms, and I don’t know if you run into- I’m assuming you do ’cause you’re a professional, you know this, they don’t have full-length mirrors.

It’s not like a standard. The counters are always too high.

I cannot see my face in the mirror, and so I go through this panic. I can’t see myself before I’m on stage. It’s very superficial, but like I wanna look good, you know?

Karen Morales: Of course.

Alycia Anderson: So more often than not, I’m like going to a Target or something, I’m buying a mirror, I’m bringing it back to the hotel room, and then I have this whole thing with management. I’m donating this to the hotel. Please, I know it’s probably not your look and feel. Put it in a closet. I don’t know. This isn’t accessible.” And so the fact that you’re, like, bringing this universal approach and educating customers, like companies on these things is massive.

Karen Morales: It’s massive, and people tend to lean in more when they start to get it through that lens. I’m not asking you to tear down your hotel and rebuild it. I’m asking you to be very clear about what your room offers and proactively tell the client so they know before they arrive if it’s gonna work.

Find this information.

It’s the same with food allergies. I have a son with a peanut allergy, and oftentimes I’ll go to these hotels and they will know at the kitchen, “Oh, you have a peanut allergy, the menu’s safe.” But when you go and get the amenity in the room, its never noted. So I get, free cookies. We get chocolates.

We’ve never had a hotel write a note saying, “Per your notes, this is peanut free.” So as you can imagine, when I had children under 12, there’d be fistfights. My daughter would be like, “It’d be nice if you could eat the cookie, but I’m gonna eat it because you can’t.” They’re teasing each other.

They’re kids. But that would just save so much effort, and these little bits of kindness I think go a long way.

Alycia Anderson: Leading with heart.

Karen Morales: Leading with heart. It’s all about heart, hospitality, ’cause I do think that the world is kind. And I think we hear a lot of horror stories, but when I’m out in the world and traveling, I have many more beautiful examples of how people leaned in. And I think oftentimes when hotels are not maybe doing the right thing, it’s because they’re scared.

They’re afraid to get it wrong, so they lean back. And I’m always telling them, ” You can’t be afraid of ensuring that the guest is going to have a good experience.” So we should lean in a little bit more. You don’t have to understand the diagnosis, you just have to understand what the room is like. And I know you’ve probably seen this too at the Peninsula in Hong Kong, which was our last night, we had a layover.

They had moved all the shampoos down to the shower bench. When is the last time you saw that, right? I almost cried. I looked at them and I said, this is the best hotel I’ve been in 18 days.” And they said, “I’m so sorry that it’s your last one.” And I said, “These little things matter.” They really do. You feel received and you already know, oh my gosh, I can have a glorious shower and get in a comfy robe and have a great night’s sleep.

Alycia Anderson: Can you articulate to our community out there that doesn’t understand what that means, like what the shampoos are typically like?

Karen Morales: So oftentimes in a roll-in shower, you have a bench on one side of the shower. You have the controls on the other side. So if you’ve gotten off your wheelchair and you’re sitting on a bench, how are you gonna turn the shower on and off? The shampoo is usually mounted because, gosh, we wanna save the environment, so we’re not using small bottles anymore, but they’re on the large bottles on the wall that is not reachable from the bench.

So number one, you can’t access water. Number two, you can’t access hair product or soap, and it can be very frustrating ’cause you’re trying to figure out, how am I gonna make this work?

How am I holding the shower head while wheeling myself and transferring and not spraying the room? And it can be a lot.

Alycia Anderson: What do clients say to you when you bring those things up? Because it seems so obvious to me some of these things that should be adjusted. The fact is it seems like a standard.

Bench is on one side, shampoo’s on the other side. There’s literally no way that you could reach them or turn the water on.

Karen Morales: They’ve never thought about it from the vantage point of someone who is seated in a chair. They think about it a lot as there’s no step to get in for somebody who’s elderly. So I’ve given that challenge to many a sales manager and said, “I want you to go into this bathroom and not be able to stand up, and I want you to try to transfer on and off of this chair… of the toilet, and I want you to try to take a shower without standing, and let me know how that goes.”

I don’t know how many actually follow through, but I think it’s a beautiful exercise of doing it from the client’s point of view. I had a very small hotel in northern Spain off the Camino also do that.

Moved the shampoo when we walked past the roll-in shower, and that floored me. They also met me before breakfast at the door with an umbrella because they thought it would be hard for me to hold an umbrella because it was raining and get to breakfast.

So those are moments you don’t forget. And I think there are a lot of hotels that have offerings, they’re just not communicated.

Alycia Anderson: Obviously, those are one-off cases, I am sure, no matter where you are in the world. Those are very unique oh my this is a different level of customer service. But you just mentioned two extremely incredible, examples that I would love personally to experience myself. Do you think that there’s a difference in, culturally what businesses see from the US versus outside? Because I lived in Belgium and in Europe for a couple years, and it was less accessible, but there was I think there was more awareness because it was less accessible.

Karen Morales: It could be for the reason you’re saying. People oftentimes ask me “Oh, Europe, how could I do that?” And I said, “The Europeans live in multi-generational homes, and they live with nonna or grandma for the entirety of their life.” And nonna doesn’t go live in a retirement home. She lives in your house with you.

So they have experienced accessibility from a young age, and the societies are inclusive overall. I know you’ve probably experienced a time going to a restaurant in the US that had stairs. You’re with a big group of people. They’re either saying there’s a freight elevator, but it’s full of supplies, or there’s like a random ramp, but it’s like broken.

That, that is an experience we have a lot. I remember very well going up to a restaurant in Rome. It’s called Rascoli. Bougie, it’s tiny, but it’s like a deli by day, kind of trattoria by night. Hard to get into, and Americans seem to love it, so I wanted to see what the hype was. So I’d taken my kids on a golf cart tour.

It was 10 o’clock at night in Rome. They’re starving, so they’re beginning to be like Fight Club with each other. You know, my son doesn’t like the popped collar during the Italian, heat wave. It’s it’s getting dark, and I’m like, “We’re gonna be fed soon.” So we get over to this restaurant, and I immediately see the man standing outside, the two stone steps to get in, and a tiny restaurant.

So as I’m rolling up, and I was using my Grit whe- wheelchair, so it’s an off-road bigger chair. I’m rolling up thinking there’s no way, and I’m apologizing in advance for my presence at the reservation that I booked, right? I don’t know why we do that, but I was doing that.

And he looks at me and goes like this.

Before I know it, two Italian waiters come out of nowhere. I’m lifted up the stairs. He is moving furniture, and he has everybody stand up.

And he looks at me, and it’s like, ” You will break my heart if you don’t dine in this restaurant, and it is just as important for you to get to your table as it is for these people to make room for you.”

And I think that’s the difference. I felt that in Asia. I felt that in Europe. I felt that in Africa, there is such a feeling of family that people go above and beyond to be inclusive, which is beautiful.

Alycia Anderson: That’s incredible, and that’s what I experienced too.

Karen Morales: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: And I love it that you accredit it to the generational exposure. For me, and this was, being totally naive, I was just like, “It must be ’cause we have so much like ADA, there’s so much more accessibility here that we walk around with blinders on, like not noticing what other people need.”

But you’re probably right. It’s probably generational, and it’s embedded in what they learn culturally. It’s amazing.

Karen Morales: We’re just litigious. We are always worried about getting sued, and I don’t think that’s the same feeling. I tell a story quite often too about a day trip I did off of a cruise ship and I wanted it to be off the beaten path in Sicily, and we worked with this partner to design something that felt truly unique.

As part of that day I said, “I wanna go to a beach club, but I don’t wanna go to a table bottle service beach club like White Lotus. I wanna go to like just a normal Italian beach club, I wanna chill out, not a scene.” They said, “Okay.” So I show up to this beach club in Sicily. We’re the only Americans.

There’s a wooden pathway like they have in most European beaches. A nice little snack bar with Nona making like Crock-Pot lasagna that was like amazing and granitas. And this beach club owner picks me a flower, gives it to me, and says, “I bought you a wheelchair. I bought you a beach wheelchair because my mother loved the beach, and at the end she couldn’t go, and I wanted to give you that experience.”

What is actually happening, right? One of the most magical days of our lives, not to mention too like out of a movie, Italian lifeguards that he positions. He’s like, “Giuseppe and Giovanni will help you,” and I’m like, “Oh, my God. What is happening?” But we went swimming, and we had a beautiful day.

And he felt like he did something that mattered to him. The driver had someone in their family with a disability. The guide had a mother that had slowed down. It was like a day that everybody’s just expectations and heart was expanded, and I think I try to do that as much as possible trips that we plan for people ’cause I don’t want people to feel like a burden.

I don’t want people to feel like they’re begging for access. I wanna create those moments so when they show up, that happens. It feels magical.

Alycia Anderson: I wanna talk about your business.

Karen Morales: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: Because I’m gonna be a customer.

Karen Morales: We love that. Love that.

Alycia Anderson: I’m Sicilian and it’s always been in my head there’s no way, like I know it’s very inaccessible there. It’s been like this blocker for me to even go there, to be honest.

Karen Morales: To where did you say?

Alycia Anderson: I’m Sicilian,

Karen Morales: Oh no, Sicily was great.

Alycia Anderson: Was it?

Karen Morales: Yes, it was great. You have to be picky a little bit about where you go, but just the Italians overall are loving and they’re open, and you can find places to stay that are barrier-free. Agriturismos can be nice hotels can. And even in some of the places like Atrabina, built on the cliffs, they have elevators that go down.

Yes. So I think finding places that can make it happen especially if you can transfer into a car, which I think you can do, so that really opens the options. It gets harder when you’re in a 400-pound power chair that needs a certain like ramp clearance because on, southern Sicily there might be like two, two tourist vans that exist and then you have to worry about size.

But if you can like hop or use a transfer board into an SUV or the typical like Mercedes black car that drives people around, no problem. Or rent a car and drive it yourself, we can make that happen. Hand controls are possible. I was offered hand controls in the Moroccan desert in the Sahara on an ATV.

Like…

Alycia Anderson: Can I be you?

Karen Morales: I mean, I also have like broken wheelchairs and canceled flights, and it’s not always sunshine and unicorns, and I’m traveling with teenagers. As you can imagine, they are, an acquired taste some moments. So it’s not always wonderful, but we do have a lot of crazy stories.

Alycia Anderson: But like you’ve mentioned Japan, Morocco, Sicily…

Karen Morales: Yeah.

Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: These are all countries that I think people with disabilities take a step back, multiple step, steps back and go, “Ah, it’s probably not… It’s probably too much. It’s probably not possible. It’s Like Morocco, like that’s.

Karen Morales: Morocco was easy, really easy. ‘Cause I think the question that you have to ask is, are there disabled people in these countries? Yes. And they’re not just staying in their house, right? They’re doing things. I think most municipalities and most governments have an initiative on access right now. I was surprised at how many places we could get to in Morocco quite easily, and how relatively easy it was.

In some cases I wish it was less welcoming ’cause I would peek my head into a carpet store, and before I would know it, I would be in the carpet store. They’d be lifting me in, being like, “You wanna buy a carpet?” “Here we go.” And I’m like, “No, wait a minute.” So I think we can do these things.

They have, camel saddles so that a paraplegic could easily ride the camel. Now, riding a camel’s also an acquired taste. I did not care for it. But you can do a lot of things, and if it can’t be solved with infrastructure, a lot of other countries just put manpower behind it. They’re like we’ll carry you.”

Alycia Anderson: Can I ask you…?

Karen Morales: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: I’m curious, and I don’t wanna shift us at all, but I do wanna learn a little bit about if you’re open to it, about how your disability shows up. Are you using a power chair? Are you using a manual chair? Will you talk a little bit about your disability, the progression of it?

Karen Morales: Sure.

Alycia Anderson: How maybe the emotional bandwidth changed, I don’t even know if I’m using the right words, as your disability’s progressed a little bit and you’re going on these adventures.

I think one of the hardest parts, if not the hardest part, of living with a progressive illness is that you’re never fully comfortable at status quo ’cause it can always shift. It’s like you’re living on a seesaw. You’re living on a teeter-totter. Now, myself being diehard optimist, I was convinced I was gonna beat muscular dystrophy.

Karen Morales: Diehard 100%. Still say I still feel like I could maybe heal. I’ll never leave that behind. this was my worst-case scenario. I had, in times, had to just avoid steps or long hikes, and then it was I can do two steps, or it has to have a railing, and, I’m hyperextending my knees, and I’m a pretty awkward gait, and then I’m wearing AFOs, and I’m using arm crutches.

It was a progress. And it was for a while I only use a wheelchair if we’re at Disney or, maybe on a cruise ship I would get a scooter to make it a little bit easier. But I never wanted this to be my life. I fought that tooth and nail. And in 2020 after I fell, I had to come to the really hard to process reality that the jig is up.

You can no longer safely leave your house, you’ve gotta accept the wheelchair. And you fight that for a while ’cause you think that this means life is smaller. I’m less independent. What I found, and what I talk to clients about all the time, is actually the wheelchair gave me my independence back.

‘Cause before that, if I was walking with arm crutches, I was so shaky that going downstairs to get a glass of water I would have to convince myself to do it for an hour. Now I can go get coffee or I can go shopping alone, or I could leave the kids at something in Tokyo and go explore for a bit, and that is worth everything.

So I think you have to come to terms with what is going to be less stressful. And honestly, you’re constantly fighting your own body,

and you’re holding on to mobility that is getting dangerous. At some point, you have to answer the question is this worth it? Now, I do … I can still stand up.

I can use … I use a small travel chair, like a Whill, that’s a power chair, but it can go in a car. It weighs, like, 50 pounds. I like that ’cause it’s fast and it’s small, we can walk everywhere. And then I do have a manual chair. But because I didn’t come from rehab, I never learned anything.

No one ever helped me transfer. Nobody ever taught me skills, how to pop a curb. So I don’t feel as comfortable in the manual chair on cobblestones or out in the world for a full day because I don’t really know how to use it well, to be honest. So I’ve probably taken the easy route, but I was an entrepreneur, so the day that this happened during COVID, when we were back going to meetings, I just needed a quick solution.

And I didn’t have a lot of time or the luxury to take time off of work and go into a deep rehab program. I had to be like, “I gotta go to a meeting in Canada. I guess I just need a power chair, otherwise how am I gonna get through the airport?” And then I thought, ” I’m almost … I’m in my 40s. I’m not gonna start traveling with an, with a handler.

Good Lord.”

I don’t think, I don’t think I’m made for that. I’m too independent. So my journey’s a little bit different. It doesn’t fit in any textbook. It wasn’t like injury, rehab, quickly go back into your life. It was like I was pretty mobile, one day I wasn’t, and then all of a sudden I had to hard launch being a wheelchair user with no help, which is a lot.

Alycia Anderson: And you’re traveling all over the place.

Karen Morales: And I’m traveling because I’m like, “I just have to figure out how to do this.”

And I’ve gotten better at it. And I feel like I have to do it now because I don’t know if I’m gonna crawl into a van when I’m 80.

Alycia Anderson: I say that a lot too with the work that I do. I’m doing it, I’m going hard now while I can, And putting as much good into the movement as I can in the way that I can while I can.

Karen Morales: Totally.

Alycia Anderson: I relate to that a lot, and I think it’s And I don’t know if this is okay for me to say, but I think it’s kind of a beautiful experience that you’re having this progression with your disability in the industry that you’re in, ’cause you’re tapping into so many different lived experiences in disability, right?

Like AFOs shaking on your feet. How do, how does it work when you’re in this scenario? Wheelchair and so what a like full scope of…

Karen Morales: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: … lived experience that you’re bringing to the … Like, all I can bring is wheelchair user, but you’ve lived this progression with your disability that you’re able to translate into, I assume, so many different scenarios.

And even if you’re not in that lived experience anymore as, say, an AFO or whatever, like you, you’ve had it.

Karen Morales: Got it.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah, you have that lived like experience to really translate, which is so cool.

Karen Morales: Yeah. And it’s helpful for clients to hear these stories.

It’s helpful for them to talk through being nervous about explaining things. And then I remind them “I also use a wheelchair.” And then they’re like, “Oh, you do understand.” I’m like, “I do. I do get it. I do get it.” And I think that lived experience is something that AI can’t help with, and I think a lot of what we do is about relationships.

It’s about also having been to the places.

Alycia Anderson: Yeah. Yeah.

Lived experience is key, especially when, compliance-heavy decisions are making the decisions sometimes of unknowns and assumptions when there’s so much more opportunity out there, let’s talk about

Karen Morales: Fora Travel, how you’re leading the accessibility initiatives, and honestly, how our community and companies work with y’all, ’cause this is incredible.

Yeah. It’s actually great.I wasn’t in travel before this. I was in marketing. And one month I helped so many clients plan trips that I thought, “Oh, I should monetize this in the future.” And when I went on this road of meeting different agencies, I met Fora, and they were a baby startup.

This was three years ago. I knew immediately that they were different. I’d been in enough boardrooms to be like, “I believe in this executive team.” And what was so beautiful is the CEO heard my story and called and said, “Listen, I want you to train everybody.” Now, that happens. I thought, “Wow, manifesting this quickly.”

But what usually doesn’t happen is they don’t attend. So the founders listened to the talk, then he said, “I wanna build this. just have to give me a little time.” followed through, and relentlessly I talked to Evan over the course of a year and a half until he said, “It’s time.” So we built a training program internally, and we allowed people to raise their hands and say, “I wanna be in the accessibility initiative.”

We have former– we have pediatricians, OTs, PTs, full-time caretakers, husbands, moms, sisters, and they’re all people that have wanted an outlet to do this or already do it for their family. So Fora really does two things really well. We plan amazing trips for consumers with any sort of planning need, and we enable people of all walks of life who are already usually the de facto travel planner in their group of friends to monetize and create this business on our platform.

We make it so easy, and we have such great technology that it enables people like myself to have this secondary business and grow their travel impact. But this, this conversation we’re in right now, this is what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a Forbes Accessibility leader. I wanted to be able to talk about this on big stages.

And I think that it shows Fora’s openness to this conversation. I anchored our sales conference. I was the closer. I will be in our Fora at Five, our five-year anniversary party in another week, couple weeks. This has become an integral part of the brand. I don’t think that happens very often.

Alycia Anderson: That’s incredible.

Karen Morales: And it happens because we have investors who have kids with special needs.

We have people on our executive team that live with this in their daily life, and everybody at this organization believes that travel should be more inclusive. So it’s not just like a side initiative. It becomes part of what we do every day. And I’ve sat in enough boardrooms to know that is special and not usual.

Alycia Anderson: And leads to Forbes Accessibility Top 200s.

Karen Morales: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: To $75 million in bookings, leads to true return on investment, and leads to, I think most importantly culture shifts and change in lens, when you’re bringing in this multi-generational who does this apply to? Oh, everybody?

Karen Morales: Yeah. Oh, everybody. Right now I have a group in Costa Rica, and grandma’s turning 80 on Saturday, and she really wanted to do the zip line, but she was nervous. And so we went back and forth about how we were gonna make it more accommodating so she could make it to the mountain and do it. And the picture that she sent in front of her birthday cake with her two young granddaughters, who are teenagers, looking at her with such awe and love and pride that’s what we do this for.

Seeing her shriek in a video down the zip line, the proudness on her face, the proudness of her girls that’s what changes the family. They remember these things, remember those moments, and that’s what money should be spent on, right? It’s those seconds of connection.

Granted, I’m sure there’s a fight. I’m sure there’s hard moments. I’m sure somebody’s not speaking to someone. That’s also part of travel. But inevitably, you remember the good stuff, and we just want more people to be able to have access to that.

Alycia Anderson: It’s on my bucket list to do a zip line.

Karen Morales: They’ll do it. I’ve done it in the wheelchair. They totally do it.

Alycia Anderson: No.

Karen Morales: Yeah. So you go up in a truck. There’s a ramp to get into the truck. You get off the truck. was it on a ramp or did they lift me? I’m not sure. You go up, and they’ll get you over the rocks, and then you roll across the hanging bridges, and they literally strap you in with a guide, and they send you in your wheelchair down the zip lines.

Alycia Anderson: Gosh, we need to stay in touch. I am so in…

Karen Morales: It’s really fun.

Alycia Anderson: You’re changing my life right now.

Karen Morales: Good. Good.

Alycia Anderson: Okay, a question?

Karen Morales: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: What is one destination, hotel, or travel experience that surprised you in the best way? Maybe you mentioned them already, but you could gift us a way to dream about.

Karen Morales: Sure. I think I will go a little closer to home and make it maybe a little bit not bucket list for everyone. So I did a road trip through Nova Scotia last year and went to Prince Edward Island and Cape Breton, which I almost hate to say out loud because it is a magical gem of a place that I’ve never seen anything like or felt energy like that.

It’s the Scottish Highlands meet Kauai.

Alycia Anderson: Wow!

Karen Morales: It was incredible. With national parks like Glacier, but you don’t see another soul for 20 minutes. It was insane. So I think going from Boston up the main coast, going into Bar Harbor, really accessible park. You can have those roll-on roll- roll-off shuttles that go around the park.

Taking an accessible ferry over into Canada and driving up the coast into Halifax, really cute town with a walking path. Then you can drive up to Cape Breton, and Cape Breton is spectacular. We actually stayed in an accessible geo dome. So one of those plastic kind of glamping situations, but it had a ramp to get into it, and you could see the ocean from the little bed, kitchenette.

A little questionable about the shower. I just didn’t need to shower. But it had a hot tub outside that if you had a little bit of ingenuity and pop up the stairs, you could kinda get into it.

Alycia Anderson: Was there a toilet?

Karen Morales: Toilet, yes. Yes, toilet in it. I don’t camp. I don’t straight camp.

Alycia Anderson: Wow. I’m like, wow.

Karen Morales: You could have popped up to get into the shower, but I had my big hiking chair, and I was just like, “Whatever, I can make this work.” And then Prince Edward Island, like Anne of Green Gables, beautiful. There’s a lot of accessible trails through the parks there. One that we went on had floating docks through the marsh with really pretty egrets and all that stuff. I was like, “This is the nicest hiking trail I’ve ever been on.” And I saw three other chairs on one hike. I thought, “This never happens.” I thought that was a really beautiful trip and could be done at all levels.

You could upgrade your hotels and stay at something gorgeous like The Muir in Halifax, or you could pick two-star kind of hotels, or if you had, a camper or a van, you could easily do that tour. And I think IF you’re on the East Coast, you wouldn’t even need to fly. You could drive the whole way.

It was wonderful. One of the beaches in Prince Edward Island was just flat and hard-packed. National seashore. It’s like my favorite, right? With a lobster shack next door and then ice cream. I’m like, “You can’t get better than this. It’s perfect.”

Alycia Anderson: Okay, so I can talk with you all day about dreamy trips. Tell our community and all the companies out there how to work with you, find you, hire you to speak, hire you to consult, all the things.

Karen Morales: Sure. We I’m Karen Morales. I’m accessibility program lead at Fora Travel. You can find us at foratravel.com. . If you’re looking to book a trip, my own travel brand is Joyward Travel. I’m on Instagram, I have a website. I’m happy to help people plan trips. And if you have a particular need, we have tons of agents that we can match you with if you want somebody that has your unique lived experience.

We do consult with hotel brands. I do speak often on the power of, resilience and even travel as a therapeutic tool. I think there can be more conversations because it unlocks something that I learned way more in traveling than I ever did in a clinic, in a therapy office what’s happened out in the world.

So I thank you for this conversation. You’re very easy to talk to.

Alycia Anderson: I love it so much. So we’re gonna leave all the links in our show notes so everybody, including myself can work with you and follow you, support you, hire you, all the things.

Karen Morales: Wonderful.

Alycia Anderson: We end the show with a pushing forward moment. And I want this one to be specific about what is a pushing forward moment in the season of life and the work that you’re doing, that you can gift away to our community?

Karen Morales: I think that we have to remind ourselves that we can usually find greater peace when we assume the best intentions. I had some tough moments in our last trip, to Asia, and my kids reminded me often that culturally they do it differently. They’re speaking about what you want in different ways, and you just have to assume the best intentions.

And I think that’s a good way to open yourself up when you’re traveling or you’re facing a barrier close to home. Assume the best.

Alycia Anderson: Even when you’re facing just differences of background, I agree with you, lean in to intentions and empathy, and the world is a much more beautiful place. So I love that. Beautiful.

Karen Morales: Thank you.

Can we stay in touch, please? I’d love to. I’d love to.

Alycia Anderson: Thank you so much for your time.

Karen Morales: Thank you.

Alycia Anderson: Such a cool conversation. I’m so excited for it to go out. It’s been really nice to meet you.

Karen Morales: Nice to meet you too. Thanks, Alycia.

Alycia Anderson: And thank you for our Pushing Forward community for showing up. Go on vacation. Call Karen. Go somewhere.

Karen Morales: Call me. Okay, thank you.

Alycia Anderson: And we’ll see you next week. This has been Pushing Forward with Alycia and Karen, and that is how we roll on this show. We will see you next week.