Episode 76 Transcript


Published: Thursday January 16, 2025

Title:
Navigating Change: Chantelle Johnson’s Insights on DEI and Entrepreneurship

Subtitle:
Creating Cultures of Belonging through Data-driven Workplace Inclusion with Talent4dCulture

Transcript:

Alycia Anderson: Welcome to Pushing Forward with Alycia, a podcast that gives disability a voice each week. We will explore topics like confidence, ambition, resilience, and finding success against all odds. We are creating a collective community that believes that all things are possible for all people. Open hearts, clear paths.

Let’s go.

Welcome back to Pushing Forward with Alycia. I’m Alycia Anderson. We are diving into leadership, culture, inclusion with the amazing Chantellele Johnson. She is trailblazing, the workforce. Shaping and creating thriving workplaces for all employees to feel like they belong. She has worked with Fortune 50 companies, leading talent development programs, and advising and aligning organizational goals to create inclusive leadership.

She and I met during Women’s History Month when I was invited to speak at Humana. We became fast friends. As of late, she has jumped right into entrepreneurship.

She is now the founder and CEO of Talent 4d Culture. She’s the author of an upcoming book. Titled: Sustaining ERG Impact: 12 Months to Lead with Purpose, Recharge with Power. Chantelle, welcome.

Chantelle Johnson: Thank you, my friend. I don’t even know if there’s another word to describe how happy I am to see you and just to be in this space with you. when you visited with me and the team with Humana for Women’s History Month. There was just a connection between you and I. I knew from the very first exchange we had via LinkedIn, that we were going to be long term friends. So I’m so excited to, full circle moment for the two of us.

Alycia Anderson: I’m so excited too. It’s the power of this industry, meeting people that come into your life that you really attach to and you’re one of them. I’m happy that now we’re navigating. Entrepreneurship life together and we can support each other this is exciting and I’m really happy for you. I always like to look back a little bit. You’re so impressive. not only from a workplace standpoint, but just your soul, who you are.

Can you paint a little picture? Who you are, where you’ve come from and how has that led you into this work that is so heartfelt and meaningful?

Chantelle Johnson: I appreciate that. For me I’ve been, two decades in corporate human resources, the most recent role focused on workplace culture, talent development. But I’ve always had a focus on creating spaces where everyone feels like they can belong. And not just saying it. Like really taking intentional look at policies and practices, the way people feel when they come into work. Because you can change policies. You can change practices, but if people don’t feel it, then it’s for not.

You have to do what makes employees feel excited. I’ve always wanted to root for the person that everybody else didn’t want to root for, in high school, sports, et cetera, I’m always, on the sidelines. Let so and so play. They haven’t had any, time on the court today. I think it’s carried on throughout adulthood. We all have to acknowledge that we come from a place of privilege. how do we use that privilege to help others who may not have those same advantages? however I can use that in the workplace or in the community, I want to do that. I’m excited Because now I get to do that as an entrepreneur.

And I will tell you, my friend, Alycia, that you sparked something in me. I’ve always had that entrepreneurial spirit, but you sparked something I’m like, man, she came from corporate and she’s killing it.

Alycia Anderson: Oh,

Chantelle Johnson: I want to do that.

Alycia Anderson: what encouraged you to take the leap from what looked like very successful top executive roles at important companies doing incredible work? was there a driver? I have a lot of People that are part of this community in this podcast that asked me, how’d you do it?

What was the motivational factor? What made you decide to just go for it?

Chantelle Johnson: Yeah. I’m still working on a recipe, right? I don’t think we ever

figure this entrepreneurial thing out my friend? I feel very fortunate with the corporate space that I sat in and accomplished a lot, saw a lot, learned a lot, but it was almost like, I was peering into this world that seems so abstract in terms of, what would happen if I could do this without any guardrails?

If I could design a strategy. That was budget agnostic. There were no boundaries, it was almost like I was veering into another world to say, Can I do this? And then there was this voice in my head to say, You got it good girl. You need to stay where you are.

So it was this duality of, I see that over there. It seems great. But there’s this comfortableness like I’m comfortable here. I can retire doing what I do. Became a point where those two, that duality could never serve a purpose together.

I had to make a choice I could stay in a place of being comfortable Or I could take a leap and go into this other world and really test this area where there were no boundaries to whatever that creative spirit that I have inside of me and the ability to help people across different industries at scale.

And I decided to go into that unknown. I decided to jump out of that space of being comfortable. I don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow. I don’t know if that paycheck is going to come through or that client’s going to come through. But when I made that decision to make that leap. It was almost like that other world was waiting for me. the community, you and so many others welcomed me with open arms. The community was saying, what were you waiting for? We’ve been waiting for you to come and be here with us. for people who have that desire to go into this entrepreneurial space, there’s all different types of ways you can do it. If you have the ability to do it, as a gig on the side in your corporate environment Test the water. See what’s out there. Talk to some of your friends. see what the market is. See what the appetite is.

If you want to do like I did and take that leap of faith and go full in the community will be there for you. Just make sure that you leverage your community. when you reach out to the community, you also have something to give. Make sure that relationship is reciprocal, you’re not only looking for the community to give you something, but you’re also giving the community something in return.

Alycia Anderson: I love that.

Chantelle Johnson: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: I think that’s all really good advice and I totally relate with that following your head or your heart. when I took the leap myself, exactly what you said, when I decided to do it and committed to it, it was like the universe was waiting for me.

Chantelle Johnson: Oh,

Alycia Anderson: You make the decision and then the path, I’ve had to work really hard, but the path continues to open.

If you nurture it, and if you are authentically passionate about the work you’re doing, at least that’s what I’ve found. So that’s cool to hear you say the same thing because I had the exact same experience and give me the chills when you said that, cause it brought me back to, The feeling that I still get when I think about just being brave and going for it.

Chantelle Johnson: Being brave. I think that’s the key word, right? Just be brave. Just take that leap. And the worst that could happen is you try. And I would say that it’s not a failure. You try, you learn from that experience. you continue to nurture whatever that thing is that you want to do on the other side.

Alycia Anderson: failure is so powerful, we both know that and not being afraid of it, I think is key. But it’s also scary when, I’m in my forties and leaving a job, that I could retire. That’s scary.

Chantelle Johnson: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: I think that the space you’re in is incredible and the work you’re doing with your company.

When we met, it was very intentional on our partnership in the event that you wanted to throw and your team and the messages that we wanted to give I would say 75 percent of the companies that hire me to come in, they’re hiring me for very specific disability inclusion. And the event you hired me for was intersectional, right? Like you said, we want you to come during women’s history month. Where you’ve got these ERG programs that are massive.

I want to talk about your success in creating ERG programs. I know that’s what your book is centered around. we had a very successful event last year. my favorite part about the event is that it was intersectional.

Disability was part of it, but it wasn’t the only piece and it translated to your employees. To the case and point of a woman walking up to me after the event saying, I am so glad that Humana chose you during women’s history month to come and talk about the intersection of identity and.

Include disability in that.

Chantelle Johnson: Right.

Alycia Anderson: So I think it’s important that you’re doing the work that you’re doing, because for me as a disabled person, it was intentional in seeing all of who I am. can you talk a little bit about that?

Chantelle Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you sharing that with me. my phone was blowing up. Oh my gosh. Oh, where did you find her? this is so great, and the experience that I wanted to provide to the employees, was viewed by. resource groups, our executive team viewed it. We had the lieutenant governor there. We had a pretty massive audience, participating in that event. What I wanted them to experience is what you just said. Alycia the beauty of the intersectionality that we all bring, in my experience. this is why it’s been so easy for DEI to be somewhat weaponized because we’ve looked at it in a very narrow focus. All of us have unique attributes when. You and I had our conversation before you came to Humana, knew that I wanted to invite you to an event that provided an opportunity for people to get to know the entire Alycia. it would have been great to have you come in October and, celebrate, national disability employment. but as a woman thriving and the work that you do it gives me goosebumps just to think about that.

I wanted person who participated in that event to really think about. The unique attributes that they bring, not only from a racial perspective from a gender perspective. From an ability perspective, how do all of those attributes show up as who you are and how does your workforce create an environment where you can belong I think we did that And we’ll get more into the subsequent, courses, that you offer, but it’s really showing people what intersectionality looks like, then helping them in a theoretical perspective. How do you now put that into practice? That’s what I really wanted from that experience. And I think we accomplished that.

Alycia Anderson: You mentioned DEI backlash.

Can we talk about that for a minute?

Chantelle Johnson: we, I

Alycia Anderson: Let’s

Chantelle Johnson: right?

Alycia Anderson: I think we should, 2025. what do you think the state of the union where are we going? how are you feeling? What do you project?

Chantelle Johnson: we are in it, my friend. for me fear is our enemy. The unknown or the uncertainty of what DEI will be in the future. we can’t allow ourselves to be fearful of what is to come. can’t get hung up on words. There are many organizations who Rightfully hone in on DEI. let’s talk about what DEI means. How does the work make people feel? We can call it whatever we want to, as long as the outcomes create environments where Everyone feels like they have a place, to belong. the longer we stay stuck on the words,

Alycia Anderson: Yeah,

Chantelle Johnson: the more it’s going to take us away from the work itself, right? And those unique attributes that I talked about earlier, those are not going away. I will wake up tomorrow. I will still be black. I’ll still be a woman. I’ll still be a breast cancer survivor.

All those things will still be true. So we have to focus on how do we want a person who holds similar attributes to myself feel in the workplace or in a community? that’s what I want to focus on.

Alycia Anderson: I like the feeling rather than the words. I think that’s really important And a beautiful way to look at it. How do we get that message out?

Chantelle Johnson: Yeah, again, fear will make feel like you have to fight.

In the environment that we are in 2025, I believe that fighting will not get us to a place where. We can find common ground, I think it will take. conversations probably a lot of conversations, right?

It can’t be a 1 and done. And we have to focus on the outcomes we want to achieve collectively. I’m reading. the U. S. census we’re projected, I think, in 2030, which is what 5 years from now that minority will become the majority.

when you think about. Interracial. Gender identity, all the things that. Some people tend to have a visceral response to will become the majority population. if organizations are about future strategic planning, it’s going to be a challenge to have a singular focus on one population. They’re going to have to look at all of those unique attributes What does that look like from a consumer base? Who are the people we want to market to? And so the work of DEI, while many organizations have been focused on a workplace, it also translates into how do your consumers see organizations?

Alycia Anderson: yeah

Chantelle Johnson: Are you Aligning those that consumer value to attract the consumer of the future and the present

Alycia Anderson: What about human resource? What about SHRM and their efforts in changing the term equity? I am fearful. About human resource, amazing opportunity to educate we look towards that department to give us the answers, even outside of DEI,

Chantelle Johnson: I share your disappointment when SHRM decided to remove the word equity from, their, DEI efforts even though I said we shouldn’t get hung up on words that was a significant decision. being the leading voice in the HR space, what I have attempted to do is understand, the work. SHRM intends to do. As a result of removing the word equity. from what I’ve read, and the interactions I’ve had with SHRM. They’re really focused on civility. How do we get to a place of having civil conversations to understand one another to come out with commonality or, common ground what I’ve shared with SHRM. From that perspective, when you think about civility is really Based on the premise where. Someone feels that they have the psychological safety in their workplace where they can say, hey, Alycia, that interaction you had today was not very civil.

If that psychological safety Is not grounded within an organization. You can’t really have civility we need to take a step back From the conversations with SHRM, I invite them to have a conversation about their stance on removing the word equity and moving more civility, because civility is under the assumption that environment is equitable, that people embrace unique attributes or diversity, that the environment is inclusive.

And you and I both know that’s not true in all workplaces.

Alycia Anderson: For sure, and I think the word civility , I use that word a lot when I’m on stages . So hopefully that piece of it is true, my gut reaction was like, Oh my God, there goes accessibility. From a disability standpoint, the reality is DEI programs are very ableist They don’t include us a lot of the time. We live in a space where we’ve been identified by terms. handicapped, disabled, it always changes. But what does it mean? at its core.

Chantelle Johnson: When I tell you I’ve been colored, black, African American, all of those hold some significance, right? But it’s still, how do I present as a woman that I am a very complex structure, what makes me hopeful is that people like yourself, me and others, We’re willing to have these very crucial conversations with others who don’t see the value and diversity, equity, or inclusion, or feel like the work DEI is replacing, the majority that’s the furthest from the truth It’s creating opportunity for everyone. That’s what equity is about. What’s very interesting though, a conversation that I had with someone who was on the other side of DEI, almost to the point where they were almost anti DEI because they felt cis white man, felt you want to bring all this programs in and what about me? You’re replacing me into, all of these areas. And as we were going through the conversation, I said, you do realize that diversity, equity, inclusion includes military veterans who often serve this country and come back with some type of disability,

Alycia Anderson: Yeah.

Chantelle Johnson: And you get to see the wheel spinning. I said on outward appearance, you would see a CIS white man, but you would never know the hidden dimensions of diversity that this person would carry. it got that person to start thinking, and I believe they’re close to being somewhat of an ally.

Still some work I need to do with that, but that’s where it starts. It’s the conversations, right?

Alycia Anderson: And it goes back to a conversation and being civil and trying to understand things that we don’t, So that was beautiful thank you for taking me down that path. You just mentioned entrepreneurship, let’s talk about your business. Let’s lift up what you’re doing, what your purpose is, what your mission is, who your ideal client is.

Chantelle Johnson: I keep saying my friend, but I really feel like you’re my sister. Like I share with you, like when we met, just that connection that we have. So when I decided to move from a place of being comfortable to, Oh man, there’s this other world I’d go into. And just reflecting back on what I said, I’ve always had a passion for creating spaces for some might call the underdog. I don’t like using that word, but some would call like, people who. Are the forgotten others. I’ve always had a space for that. Talent4d culture is founded on the principle of creating a workplace culture where not only people feel like they belong, but there is data, there’s evidence based research to support that, and again, the reason behind the company, what I’ve found is we focus so much on the feeling of belonging. Why it’s been somewhat easy for people to weaponize this work is because we don’t have a lot of evidence based research to support the work itself. Talent4dCulture is aimed to do that, working with organizations on the maturity curve who are ready to transform their workplace cultures. We are coming up on, 6 generations in the workplace. Talk about another dimension of diversity. Each generation has a set of value propositions when they look for a workplace, We are seeing a lot of organizations move from a work from home to the return to office, What is interesting to me from a talent and a culture perspective. Organizations didn’t take this time during a pandemic or a social unrest to really reflect and say. How have we adjusted our workplace culture to accommodate all these different people coming into the workplace? What are the desires and the needs for them to thrive in an organization where we can be innovative? We can be, the first in the market, all of those things, right? So talent for the culture really fits into transforming workplace cultures. to meet the talent needs of the diverse attributes of talent today. it’s working with my ideal clients who are ready to take a very inward introspective focus on what’s working well. And what are some things that we just need to throw out in the trash? when I tell you, my friend, Alycia, there are many workplace practices, HR practices that are antiquated. if organizations are going to compete for the talent in the workplace today, they’re really going to have to adjust their cultures again, create a value proposition where that talent is attracted to those employers.

I share this story sometimes and I talk about, our son, he’s 24 and, attended college during a pandemic. All he knew was social media. And so when a pandemic hit and campuses were closed, he came back home, he was already thriving as a social media influencer.

We had this, battle, it’s mom, I don’t need a college degree,

‘ I’m making all this money as a social media influencer. not until our son had to file his taxes, and I actually saw how much he made off of social media. I’m like, darn, I’m still dealing with student debt.

So those are the different generations and the unique attributes that , the dimensions of diversity can bring to workplace. An employer. What are you doing to make sure that you are providing that value proposition to that 20 year old?

Alycia Anderson: I can’t wait to see where your business goes. So excited.

Chantelle Johnson: I’m excited. I’m going to tell you one organization that I’m working with that wanted an opportunity to create an understanding of their business resource groups. Their political action committee had no idea what a BRG was, let alone any of the employees who were in it vice versa.

The BRG members had no idea what in the heck is a PAC man, what are we talking about? And so the CEO wanted an opportunity because they knew a lot of the anti DEI sentiment was coming through. They wanted to hear the voice What better way to do it from the BRG, ERG perspective? Have the PAC listen into, are we doing the right things on the hill from the perspective of our employee base? It was fascinating.

Alycia Anderson: is fascinating.

Chantelle Johnson: And that’s just one talent for the culture where you really think about how can we transform the way in which, we create this workplace culture. Bring, unknown entities together to find commonality for the greater good, not only of the employee, but for the business itself.

Alycia Anderson: I love it.

Chantelle Johnson: it’s such a beautiful thing.

Alycia Anderson: cool.

Chantelle Johnson: Yeah.

Alycia Anderson: That’s really cool. Can you talk about the book and what this is, how it’s going to be an amazing resource for all those companies that are listening right now that need a resource for their ERGs.

Can you talk about the book a little bit?

Chantelle Johnson: the book, Sustaining ERG Impact, 12 Months to Lead with Purpose, Recharge with Power, ERG, BRG leaders and members are truly the unsung heroes of DEI. They do this work from a place of passion and purpose. they do this work most often uncompensated on top of their day job. I’ve met some phenomenal ERG BRG members. Given where we are, and the uncertainty of DEI. I feel that the place of sustainability and foundation will sit. the affinity groups, the resource groups, however. In my last role. not a lot of resources out there to support the leaders in this space. so I wanted to create, a resource for them to look across a 12 month span of time, take it month by month. are the practical things that as a leader you can do to sustain your efforts? what are the things you are doing from a wellness perspective? a lot of these leaders are doing this work, often unpaid, on top of their day job, and I can only imagine how exhausted many of them are. so this book is really self care. How are you taking care of yourself? What are the wellness routines that you’re putting in place? month over month to make sure that you’re sustaining your efforts. it’s really, a love letter back to, again, those unsung heroes that I really hope that they will find it as a resource sustain their efforts.

But more importantly, Alycia, I also think it’s important for the executive sponsors and champions of ERGs. to take a look at this book as well. Because not only will they find resources and information to support the ERG leaders, they too can use some of the wellness cues in the book as leaders. this is going to be a pretty tough year for all of us, right?

so I’m really excited about the book. It’s scheduled to come out the end of this month, fingers crossed. As I mentioned to you, it’s still sitting on the editor’s desk, a lot of redlining, but really excited about what this resource can bring to support the unsung heroes as ERG leaders.

Alycia Anderson: Congratulations. What an accomplishment. I cannot wait to read it, celebrate you. And start recommending it every time I speak.

Chantelle Johnson: It’s interesting because all of the challenges that I mentioned about ERG leaders, there are some phenomenal leaders of ERGs who’ve had to make that decision to leave their posts to go back to their day job just because they didn’t have the capacity. And there are some practical, information in the book to help them mitigate that. So if you’re an ERG leader, and you feel like you don’t have the capacity or you feel like you’ve been forced to resign from your ERG leadership spot. there’s some practical information in the book to help.

Alycia Anderson: tell us how to find you, where to be updated with your book release, how to work with you, what’s your website, all of that.

Chantelle Johnson: Thank you, my friend. So the book release I will announce when it’s available for purchase on all of my social media handles. LinkedIn talent for the number four, the letter D culture. You can find us on LinkedIn. You can also find us on Instagram, same handle talent for the culture and website the same. Pretty easy talent for the culture. We’ll make all announcements there. any of, your wonderful listeners interested in having me partner for workplace culture transformation, we’ll be happy to be a part of that.

Alycia Anderson: Seems like you’re hitting the timing right. This is such a need, going into this new year.

Chantelle Johnson: Thank you, my friend. you were my inspiration. When I into that other world, I was like, gosh, she was a corporate, bat chick over here. And now she’s entrepreneur bat chick. I need to do this.

Alycia Anderson: I’m glad that our friendship could encourage you in any way, but it’s all you, sister. You got to do the work but it’s been a joy to watch you shine. So we wrap up the show with a pushing forward moment. Do you have a little mantra, a nugget of, Gold that you could give to our community to feel happy and motivated when they’re leaving this episode today.

Chantelle Johnson: Going back to the question you asked about those who want to test the waters and entrepreneurial space. My advice from a pushing forward perspective, the longer you not to pursue that dream, the harder it will be to become a reality, And that dream may not ever come to fruition if you don’t pursue it. So my encouragement is test the waters, do it on a minimal basis. if you decide to take a leap, look at people like Alycia, look at people like myself and the community will embrace you with open arms.

Alycia Anderson: So beautiful.

Chantelle Johnson: Yeah..

Alycia Anderson: I’m going to be on the sidelines cheering you on and thank you for coming into my life.

Chantelle Johnson: Thank you for coming into my life, You are stuck with me.

Alycia Anderson: Thank you so much for your time and thank you to our community for showing up for us each and every episode. This has been Pushing Forward with Alycia, and that is literally how we roll on this podcast.

We’ll see you next time.